Talk:Purdah

This article is in need of more explanation from someone more knowledgable about Purdah. When is it permissible to not be covered? I understand that different islamic societies have different opinions about this, but I am interested in the exceptions to this rule as being illustritive of the deeper meanings involved:

1. If her house is on fire, can a woman run out of it without the correct apparel? Can she exit naked without punishment? Would someone give her clothing quickly?
2. Are Islamic prostitutes commonly clothed in burqas or hot pants or both? Do they have brothels, queens (house mothers), or pimps? What is the prostitution industry like in islamic countries? Yes, prostitution is everywhere, so the 'it doesn't happen here' answer is probably not helpful. I'm mostly interested in (for this article) the intersection of purdah and prostitution.
3. Which countries currently have the most restrictive purdah traditions? The least?
4. Do wealthy women have the same purdah obligations socially and legally as poor people? Ideally? In real life?
5. How, and in what scripture, is purdah mentioned, either in Jewish, Christian, or Islamic traditions? What are the origins? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.173.27.145 (talk • contribs). at 03:16, 11 October 2005.

this page is in great need of care, it has been vandalized! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.241.248.84 (talk • contribs). at 22:46, 24 October 2005.

Other meanings - UK (esp. financial/political?)

Article mentions two specific usages relating to elections and budgets. The Bank of England's Monetary Policy Committee also use the term to relate to a period of time before and after each Interest rate decision in which commitee members avoid giving speeches and speaking to the news media or other interests, on or off the record, about monetary and fiscal policy and the conjuncture, or anything else which could be considered relevant to their interest rate decisions or the forecast. [1].

Perhaps this (and the other mentioned related usages in English) could be put in another disambiguated article? Are there other equivalent usages outside the UK? --62.173.111.114 14:22, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Purdah and Hijab

There is no reason to merge Purdah with Hijab. The words have different meanings and histories as the article The Hijab and I by C.M. Naim, Emeritus Professor of Urdu and South Asian Languages and Civilizations at the University of Chicago, makes clear. Here is an extended quote from the article:

“ The word ‘Hijab’ is relatively new for me. It was not a part of my vocabulary as I was growing up. I learned it much later, when I began to read literary and religious Urdu texts. That is how I also learned other such culturally potent words as Ishq (Passion) and Siyasat (Politics), and Tasavvuf (Mysticism). The relevant word that I learned growing up was purdah. And I learned the word and its many meanings in the observed practice of the various female members of my middle-class family in Bara Banki, a small town in north India.

For Ammi, my grandmother, purdah meant almost never venturing out of the house. On the rare occasions when she did, it was always an elaborate ritual. Visiting a family in the neighbourhood -- only on the occasion of some tragedy, as I remember -- she used a doli. The little stool slung from a pole that two men carried would be brought to our back door -- the door to the zanana or the ladies’ section -- and the two carriers would step away behind the curtain wall. Ammi would wrap herself in a white sheet and squat on the flat stool, and a heavy custom-made cover would be thrown over her and the doli. The two bearers would then come back and carry the doli away on their shoulders.

When Ammi traveled in my father’s car, she covered herself the same way, while the back seat of the car where she sat was made completely invisible by pieces of cloth hung across the windows. Years earlier, she had traveled all the way to Mecca with her daughter and son-in-law to perform the Hajj. I don’t know how she covered herself during the journey itself, but in the holy city she must have done what all Muslim women are required to do: perform the many rituals together with men while keeping their hair and bodies covered but faces fully exposed. She acted in Mecca the way it was required of her by Islam, her religion, while in Bara Banki she did what was demanded by her culture -- the culture of the sharif or genteel people of Avadh.

Apa, my mother belonged, to the next generation. She used a burqa. Hers was a two piece ‘modern’ outfit, as opposed to the one-piece -- derisively called ‘the shuttlecock’ by my sisters -- that was preferred by the older or more conservatively spirited in the family. I also remember that the older generation’s burqas were usually white, while the new burqas were always black.

Apa’s burqa’ consisted of a skirt and a separate top throw -- one that covered her from the head to the thighs. The two pieces allowed for easier movement of both arms and legs. The top had a separate veil hanging over the face, which Apa could throw back in the company of women, e.g. while traveling in the ladies compartment on a train, or hold partly aside to look at things more closely when she went shopping. Apa wore a burqa all her life, except of course when she went to Mecca for Hajj. There she wore the same sheets of ihram that Ammi had to were earlier. Like all women pilgrims then and now, she too exposed her face to everyone’s sight but not her hair.

My older sisters went to a school in Lucknow where they boarded. They wore a burqa of my mother’s style while in Bara Banki. They probably wore the same in Lucknow too, on their outings with other students, no doubt always under the supervision of a lady teacher or two. My eldest sister gave up the burqa after she got married, though she always put it on when she came to Bara Banki during our father’s life. She acted as the wife of a certain individual when she was away from Bara Banki, but behaved as befitted the daughter of a particular family when she returned home.

In our extended family, however, there were several cousins of my mother who never wore a burqa, and two had worn western clothes when they were at a convent school.There were also a few families in Bara Banki even then in which the younger women never wore burqas and only half-wrapped themselves in a sheet when they walked to some place in the neighborhood; they otherwise dressed and behaved just like my sisters.

I should not neglect to mention that in those days -- I’m talking about the Forties -- it was considered improper even for Hindu ladies of certain classes to be seen in public with their hair and faces uncovered, particularly the married women. They never wore a burqa -- that was for Muslims alone. Instead, they used a shawl, a plain white sheet, or the pallo of their saris to cover what was not for strangers to see. They too lived in houses that had separate women’s quarters. Their daughters traveled to school daily in a covered wagon that was pushed by two men, just like their Muslim counterparts. (The school was exclusively for girls and had a very high wall surrounding it.)

Another noticeable difference between Hindu and Muslim ladies of the same middle class was that the former did not hesitate to use a tonga. They sat on the back bench of the horse-drawn vehicle where their sari-wrapped lower bodies were visible to all. Muslim ladies, on the other hand, preferred the other horse-drawn vehicle, ekka -- where they could huddle on its high seat wrapped in their burqas or even have the whole seat enclosed with a sheet. My sisters, I well remember, hated to travel in an ekka, and did so only under duress in Bara Banki; in Lucknow, they too used a tonga.

Needless to say, the women who ‘served’ in our homes in some capacity -- as live-in servants or traditional retainers -- and the women of the poorer classes all over the city went about their hard tasks without any kind of purdah. On the way to my school I’d walk through a small cluster of homes where some Muslim weavers lived.

Their women went about their daily chores in ordinary clothes, even when working under the trees by the roadside. Their men were believed by most to be more devoutly Muslim than many -- the British had called them ‘the bigoted julahas’ -- but for untold generations the same devout men had enforced no purdah restrictions on their women.

They could not afford to in the face of the reality of their lives. Only the young married women in their households kept their faces lowered and partially covered with the hem of their dupattas exactly as did their sari-clad Hindu counterparts in that neighbourhood.

In other words, when and where I was growing up the word ‘purdah’ had many different meanings. It described a range of habits, and not just a piece of cloth. The defining emphasis always was on a modesty of behaviour which included a showing of respect for our ‘elders’. Purdah in Bara Banki was not defined by some religious code, it existed as dictated by local practices and sensibilities. And it always seemed open to change.

”

Fowler&fowler«Talk» 14:31, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Moved scripts to top

I have moved the Hindi script from the Other meanings section to the introduction of the article for two reasons: [a] Purdah is practiced in India (see references kindly provided by Fowler&fowler) [b] Purdah is the standard Hindi word for curtain. In addition, I have made the Perso-Arabic script more readable. Thanks, Anupam^Talk 06:00, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't know why are you so obsessed with Hindu script that you keep adding it to every article that comes in your way. Stop doing it. Stop trying to Indianize every Pakistan and Islam related article. Inida is not a Muslim country. It is a Hindu country. If your logic is followed, we need hundreds of transliterations of "purdah" for every language of Purdah observing people. It's ridiculous. Szhaider 23:00, 7 January 2007 (UTC)