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== Requested move 17 March 2016 ==

<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:RM top -->
:''The following is a closed discussion of a [[WP:requested moves|requested move]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a [[Wikipedia:move review|move review]]. No further edits should be made to this section. ''

The result of the move request was: '''No consensus''' (and looks like off-site canvassing). Close includes the "Additional proposal" subsection. {{RMnac}} [[User:Dicklyon|Dicklyon]] ([[User talk:Dicklyon|talk]]) 04:31, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

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[[:Rojava conflict]] → {{no redirect|Rojava Revolution}} – I propose that this page be moved to Rojava Revolution. Wikipedia's definition of a revolution is defined as "A revolution is a fundamental change in power or organizational structures that takes place in a relatively short period of time."

Rojava has seen its autonomy declared with a new constitution that profoundly alters the rights of citizens.<ref>{{cite news|title=A Dream of Secular Utopia in ISIS’ Backyard|url=http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/29/magazine/a-dream-of-utopia-in-hell.html}}</ref> People in administration have changed, including many who were once barred from holding government positions. New ministries have been established. A model of "Democratic Confederalism" is being implemented. The courts now have many new lawyers and judges. The schools are now instructing in Kurdish and other languages.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/11/syria-kurdistan-self-governance-teach-kurdish-language.html# |title=After 52-year ban, Syrian Kurds now taught Kurdish in schools}}</ref> All of these constitute fundamental changes in power and organizational structures and has occurred within a short period of time.

Additionally, the combatants commonly refer to the conflict they are part of as a revolution.<ref>{{cite news|title=German YPG fighter: ‘I joined the Kurds in war on ISIS to change the world’|url=http://aranews.net/2016/03/german-ypg-fighter-joined-kurds-war-isis-change-world/}}</ref>

In terms of search results, "Rojava Revolution" receives about 223,000 results.<ref>{{cite web|url=https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=en&q=rojava%20revolution#hl=en&q=%22rojava+revolution%22 |title="rojava revolution" - Google Search}}</ref> "Rojava conflict" receives 993 results.<ref>{{cite web |url=https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=en&q=rojava%20revolution#hl=en&q=%22rojava+conflict%22 |title="rojava conflict" - Google Search}}</ref> [[User:Cedewey|Cedewey]] ([[User talk:Cedewey|talk]]) 02:10, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
{{reflist-talk}}
*'''Oppose''' - as mentioned earlier, that is far from a neutral title, unlike the current one. Most sources don't refer to the conflict in northern Syria as the "Rojava revolution". [[User:FunkMonk|FunkMonk]] ([[User talk:FunkMonk|talk]]) 02:13, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
*'''Support''' - FunkMonk. The term revolution is not a biased one, (revolutions aren't inherently good or bad) but a descriptive one. The events that have taken place, as I've shown, represent a significant shift in power: economically, politically and socially. To your second point, Rojava Revolution is in fact used much more often than Rojava conflict, as I supported with Google Search results. Lastly, the people who are actually fighting refer to it as a revolution, people whose views I think should carry significant weight when considering what to name what is taking place. [[User:Cedewey|Cedewey]] ([[User talk:Cedewey|talk]]) 02:39, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
*'''Comment.''' While checking the Google search links provided above I noticed that [[User:Cedewey|Cedewey]] has solicited support for this move on a rather obviously biased offsite forum ([https://www.reddit.com/r/rojava/comments/4ar4qh/help_get_the_wikipedia_article_rojava_conflict/]), which I believe is a violation of [[WP:CAN]] ("The audience must not be selected on the basis of their opinions"). I am neutral in regards to the proposed move, but would just note that it is not Wikipedia's role to be attempting to measure the applicability or desirability of a particular term; the [[WP:COMMONNAME]] used in the reliable sources should be the decisive factor here. —'''[[User:Nizolan|<span style="color: #880000">Nizolan</span>]]''' <sup>[[user talk:Nizolan|<span style="color: black;">(talk)</span>]]</sup> 04:16, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
:: Thanks for letting me know. I didn't realize that was an issue. I've deleted the reddit post. [[User:Cedewey|Cedewey]] ([[User talk:Cedewey|talk]]) 04:26, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
*'''Support''' - This article is about the [[social revolution]] taking place in [[Rojava]]. Not the conflict. The conflict is covered in [[Syrian Kurdish–Islamist conflict (2013–present)]]. [[User:Charles Essie|Charles Essie]] ([[User talk:Charles Essie|talk]]) 20:34, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' For Syrian Arabs this is not a revoulution: https://www.amnesty.org/en/press-releases/2015/10/syria-us-allys-razing-of-villages-amounts-to-war-crimes/ - http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/13/us-backed-kurdish-forces-committing-war-crimes-against-syrian-civilians - https://news.vice.com/article/us-airdropping-weapons-to-syrian-rebels-as-ypg-is-accused-of-war-crimes - http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/syria-kurdish-ypg-accused-ethnic-cleansing-arabs-battle-tel-abyad-1506198 - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/10/12/report-u-s-backed-kurdish-rebels-may-have-committed-war-crimes-in-syria/ <small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Patetez|Patetez]] ([[User talk:Patetez|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Patetez|contribs]]) 15:06, 11 April 2016 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:*The [[Zanzibar Revolution]] also featured atrocities against [[Arabs]] but it's still called a revolution because of the enormous political and social change that took place. Another example is the [[Rwandan Revolution]] which was a disaster for [[Rwanda]]'s [[Tutsi]] population. Plus, your argument precludes the fact that many Arabs are also allied with the [[Kurds]] and are participating in the revolution. [[User:Charles Essie|Charles Essie]] ([[User talk:Charles Essie|talk]]) 15:36, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

===Additional proposal===
*[[:Rojava conflict]] → {{no redirect|Rojava Revolution}}
*[[:Syrian Kurdish–Islamist conflict (2013–present)]] → {{no redirect|Rojava conflict}}
– As I've said above, this article is about the [[social revolution]] taking place in [[Rojava]] while the conflict is covered in [[Syrian Kurdish–Islamist conflict (2013–present)]]. So this might be good way to resolve the issue. [[User:Charles Essie|Charles Essie]] ([[User talk:Charles Essie|talk]]) 17:44, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' - "Kurdish–Turkish conflict", "Iraqi–Kurdish conflict" and "Kurdish–Iranian conflict" are commonly used to describe Kurdish conflicts in those three countries. The title for this conflict should follow that same style too, for that reason I support renaming [[:Syrian Kurdish–Islamist conflict (2013–present)]] → {{no redirect|Syrian Arab-Kurdish conflict}} [[User:Patetez|Patetez]] ([[User talk:Patetez|talk]]) 20:12, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
:*This article is only about the Kurdish conflict taking place in midst of the [[Syrian Civil War]] so I think that's to broad a title. However, I would not be opposed to the creation of broader article about the history of Arab-Kurdish conflict in Syria, perhaps titled {{no redirect|Kurdish–Syrian conflict}}. [[User:Charles Essie|Charles Essie]] ([[User talk:Charles Essie|talk]]) 17:15, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

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:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a [[Wikipedia:Requested moves|requested move]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Move review|move review]]. No further edits should be made to this section.</div><!-- Template:RM bottom -->

== Discussion of Merging YPG-FSA relations article into Rojava conflict ==
Someone suggested merging the YPG-FSA relations article with this page. I don't see any place where discussion has taken place so I'm starting that here.

* '''Don't Merge''' I think that the current Rojava conflict already has enough information on the conflict and relationships between various groups so would be against merging them. The result would be an excessively long article. [[User:Cedewey|Cedewey]] ([[User talk:Cedewey|talk]]) 04:43, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

== Renaming Rojava campaign to Rojava revolution ==

I propose that this page be renamed to Rojava revolution. Citing Wikipedia ;), a revolution is defined as "A revolution is a fundamental change in power or organizational structures that takes place in a relatively short period of time."

Rojava has seen its autonomy declared with a new constitution that profoundly alters the rights of citizens. People in administration have changed, including many who were once barred from holding government positions. New ministries have been established. A model of "Democratic Confederalism" is being implemented. The courts now have many new lawyers and judges. The schools are now instructing in Kurdish and other languages. All of these constitute fundamental changes in power and organizational structures and has occurred within a short period of time.

In summary, I believe using the term revolution more accurately describes the situation taking place in Rojava.

I look forward to others' thoughts on the matter.[[User:Cedewey|Cedewey]] ([[User talk:Cedewey|talk]]) 05:03, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
:Few if any sources describe this as a revolution, so we can't either. The opinions of editors don't really matter in that regard. [[User:FunkMonk|FunkMonk]] ([[User talk:FunkMonk|talk]]) 05:07, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

:: Thanks for chiming in FunkMonk. There are quite a few sources that describe this as a revolution. Here are a few of them- [http://roarmag.org/2014/07/rojava-autonomy-syrian-kurds/ ROAR Magazine], [https://www.opendemocracy.net/arab-awakening/evangelos-aretaios/rojava-revolution OpenDemocracy], [http://www.dissentmagazine.org/online_articles/the-revolution-in-rojava Dissent Magazine], [http://www.telesurtv.net/english/opinion/The-Rojava-Revolution-and-the-Liberation-of-Kobani-20150212-0029.html TeleSur], [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKhjJfH0ra4 BBC News], [https://zcomm.org/znetarticle/rojava-revolution-building-autonomy-in-the-middle-east/ ZCommunications], [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2zxlFQxkQ4 Vice News]. On the other hand, I find very few sources using the term "Rojava campaign." Doing a Google search results comparison brings up 103,000 results for "rojava campaign"<ref>{{cite web|title=Rojava Campaign search results|url=https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=en&q=rojava%20campaign}}</ref> compared to 199,000 for "rojava revolution."<ref>{{cite web|title=Rojava Revolution search results|url=https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=en&q=rojava%20revolution}}</ref> Even with the results that come up for Rojava Campaign, the articles and pages that come up aren't using the term "Rojava Campaign" but rather include both the words "Rojava" and "campaign" somewhere in the content. [[User:Cedewey|Cedewey]] ([[User talk:Cedewey|talk]]) 05:22, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
:::The term mainly seems to be used on some radical leftist sites. Campaign is more of just a general, neutral description, could just as well had been called war or conflict instead. [[User:FunkMonk|FunkMonk]] ([[User talk:FunkMonk|talk]]) 05:26, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
:::: It's certainly accepted as a revolution on the left, but several of the sources I included are mainstream media outlets: BBC, Vice News, and TeleSur. Additionally, the title of the article should describe the content accurately. In this case we have a situation in which, as the definition speaks to, a fundamental change in power or organizational structures in a short amount of time. Rojava is now being administered by completely new politicians under a radically different organizational structure ([[Democratic Confederalism]]), with a new constitution and with laws that are very different from the previous ones. For example, the Kurdish language can now be spoken freely, there is a 40% gender quota for assemblies, a similar quota for ethnic minorities, schools can now teach Kurdish and other minority languages. The security force is handled under Asayish. These all strongly back the reality tht power and organizational structures have fundamentally shifted in a short amount of time. Because of what I've outlined above and there hasn't been others weighing in, I'll update the title of the article to Rojava Revolution and have Rojava Campaign redirect here. If people would like to discuss the title further, it can be resumed in the talk page. [[User:Cedewey|Cedewey]] ([[User talk:Cedewey|talk]]) 01:20, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
::::::You can't move the page without consensus. Something like "Rojava conflict" or whatever would better reflect the majority of sources. [[User:FunkMonk|FunkMonk]] ([[User talk:FunkMonk|talk]]) 08:08, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
:::::: My apologies for not seeking further consensus, I thought I had addressed your last concern. Again, as I demonstrated from the search results count and numerous articles, the term "Rojava Revolution" is the most common title for what is transpiring. Also, the people in Rojava describe it as a revolution. Being the ones most affected by the situation I believe that should weigh heavily in the article title. Looking at Wikipedia's Article Titles guidelines, the title should be recognizable, natural, precise, concise and consistent. The different terms being considered (campaign, conflict, revolution) are all concise, consistent and natural. So, the question is, choosing between those three, which is most recognizable and precise? As I've pointed out- what has transpired in Rojava is a significant change in power and organizational structure. So, revolution more precisely describes the situation on the ground. Also, when we're talking specifically about Rojava, "Rojava Revolution" is the most recognizable of these terms. One can argue that revolution has not been used in as many mainstream media articles, but that is true when the article is talking about the military conflict transpiring, not the larger picture description of the change in Rojava itself. And again, search results show that people are using the term Rojava Revolution more than conflict or campaign. So, I believe Rojava Revolution is the most recognizable and precise title for this article. <small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Cedewey|Cedewey]] ([[User talk:Cedewey|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cedewey|contribs]]) 15:20, 1 August 2015 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

Rojava Revolution?! Who came up with that gem? A PKK or some other socialist/communist sympathiser? If there is a Kurdish revolution then what of the broader [[Syrian Civil War]]? Shouldn't this be renamed the Syrian Revolution? Wikipedia you have outdone yourself in being a mouthpiece of special interest groups.--[[Special:Contributions/120.18.107.52|120.18.107.52]] ([[User talk:120.18.107.52|talk]]) 00:31, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

:: Rojava Revolution is the more common name given to the events than Syrian Revolution. I believe this is because the revolutionary activity of this nature is taking place primarily in northern Syria (Rojava). --[[User:Cedewey|Cedewey]] ([[User talk:Cedewey|talk]]) 06:34, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

::: FunkMonk and others- I've listed out numerous reasons why Rojava Revolution is the most accurate title. Since a decent amount of time has passed without any objection to those points made I'm going to return the page to Rojava Revolution. If you have further disagreements after that, please outline your thinking on this talk page. --[[User:Cedewey|Cedewey]] ([[User talk:Cedewey|talk]]) 06:34, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
::::Again, you need to make a formal move request and gain consensus. Your name is not neutral. [[User:FunkMonk|FunkMonk]] ([[User talk:FunkMonk|talk]]) 11:58, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
:::: Sorry for the confusion. I didn't understand the formal move request procedure. I'll do that now. [[User:Cedewey|Cedewey]] ([[User talk:Cedewey|talk]]) 02:10, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Personally I think the renaming is premature and in violation of NPOV. If you want my opinion on why: it would be because I don't think you can call something a revolution until after the conflict is over. If the conflict ends and things revert to the way they were, with no permanent change, then it's not a revolution, it's a failed <i>coup de e'tat</i>. again i really think it ought to be Campaign for NPOV issues. [[User:Masonpew|morsontologica]] ([[User talk:Masonpew|talk]]) 10:23, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
:The [[Spanish Revolution of 1936]] and the [[Hungarian Revolution of 1956]] both failed (and both of them were influenced by [[libertarian socialism]] like [[Rojava]]) and yet they've always been referred to as revolutions (other examples include the [[1851 Chilean Revolution]], the [[Macedonian Revolution of 1878]], the [[Donghak Peasant Revolution]], the [[Revolution of 1905]], the [[Saffron Revolution]], and the [[Egyptian Revolution of 2011]]). [[User:Charles Essie|Charles Essie]] ([[User talk:Charles Essie|talk]]) 22:07, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

== Article needs update ==

The "Towns under autonomous self rule" section is a year and a half out of date. Can someone run through and update it? [[User:Utahwriter14|Utahwriter14]] ([[User talk:Utahwriter14|talk]]) 16:21, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
:Why don't we just remove the whole section? I mean the list is going to be very long. --[[User:Ahmetyal|Ahmetyal]] ([[User talk:Ahmetyal|talk]]) 16:40, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
:: I agree. I think it should just be removed altogether, it's not adding much and people can use the conflict map to see what territory is under whose control. --[[User:Cedewey|Cedewey]] ([[User talk:Cedewey|talk]]) 03:41, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

== Infobox photo ==

While it's doubtlessly a good photo, I can't free myself from thinking it's a bit boastful. Perhaps we should consider a replacement, or alternatively a compilation of photos including the current one? --[[User:Mikrobølgeovn|Mikrobølgeovn]] ([[User talk:Mikrobølgeovn|talk]]) 18:54, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

==Proposed split==
<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:polltop -->
:''The following is a closed discussion of the merge. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. ''

The result of the merge was '''Not merged''' per Klbrain. Possibly consider merging the detailed timeline [[Syrian Kurdish–Islamist conflict (2013–present)]] into [[Timeline of the Syrian Civil War]] and its sub-articles. [[User:Wbm1058|wbm1058]] ([[User talk:Wbm1058|talk]]) 16:29, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
---------------
I propose to split the article into [Rojava conflict] (to describe the ongoing military conflict with ISIL) and [Rojava Revolution] (to describe the ongoing social revolution in Rojavan territory). Thoughts? [[User:Gob Lofa|Gob Lofa]] ([[User talk:Gob Lofa|talk]]) 22:23, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
:What revolution? [[User:FunkMonk|FunkMonk]] ([[User talk:FunkMonk|talk]]) 21:51, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
::The [[social revolution]]. [[User:Gob Lofa|Gob Lofa]] ([[User talk:Gob Lofa|talk]]) 02:57, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
:I agree, but we already have an article for the conflict ([[Syrian Kurdish–Islamist conflict (2013–present)]]) that could renamed "Rojava conflict" while this one is renamed "{{no redirect|Rojava Revolution}}". [[User:Charles Essie|Charles Essie]] ([[User talk:Charles Essie|talk]]) 20:23, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
::Here's an idea, maybe after creating a separate article for the {{no redirect|Rojava Revolution}}, we could merge [[Syrian Kurdish–Islamist conflict (2013–present)]] into this page to provide greater coverage of the conflict. [[User:Charles Essie|Charles Essie]] ([[User talk:Charles Essie|talk]]) 15:43, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
:::Disagree, no need for any split.--[[User_talk:Zoupan|Z<small>oupan</small>]] 02:53, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
::::Can you be more specific? [[User:Charles Essie|Charles Essie]] ([[User talk:Charles Essie|talk]]) 19:23, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
::{{ping|120.18.107.52|Cedewey|FunkMonk|Gob Lofa|Masonpew|Nizolan|Patetez}} What do you think of my proposal? [[User:Charles Essie|Charles Essie]] ([[User talk:Charles Essie|talk]]) 20:12, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
:::Still not sure why a split is necessary. At 49.000 byte, it is far form the 100.000 byte split "limit". [[User:FunkMonk|FunkMonk]] ([[User talk:FunkMonk|talk]]) 18:37, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
::::This isn't just a split. The is merger of [[Rojava conflict]] and [[Syrian Kurdish–Islamist conflict (2013–present)]] (we don't need two articles for the same conflict and this combined article would be much bigger) along with the creation of a separate article about the [[social revolution]] taking place in [[Rojava]]. [[User:Charles Essie|Charles Essie]] ([[User talk:Charles Essie|talk]]) 16:39, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
::: I like the idea of a split. There's certainly enough material to cover both the conflict side of what is going on and the social changes. [[User:Cedewey|Cedewey]] ([[User talk:Cedewey|talk]]) 05:26, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
::: I think that the social revolution is adequately covered on this page as is and see no need for a separate page. However, if this page were to merge with [[Syrian Kurdish–Islamist conflict (2013–present)]] that would warrant reconsideration of a split given that the article would be much larger; additionally if there were a good deal more material on the social revolution on this page, that might call for a split as well. If {{ping|Cedewey}} and {{ping|Charles Essie}} believe that there is enough material for a separate page on the social revolution I would support that. [[User:Masonpew|morsontologica]] ([[User talk:Masonpew|talk]]) 20:52, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
::::I think there's maybe enough, although some more material wouldn't hurt. [[User:Charles Essie|Charles Essie]] ([[User talk:Charles Essie|talk]]) 15:42, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

'''Oppose split. Support merge.''' I edit not in these articles, but in quite some related articles, and all this stuff is so much intertwined, to create value for the reader as much as possible should be presented in the context of a single article. [[Rojava]] documents the state of affairs, [[Rojava conflict]] the diverse conflicts/struggles to get there, and [[Human rights in Rojava]] as well as [[Foreign relations of Rojava]] have two particular perspectives. Plus diverse "timeline" structured articles of relations (most of which should also be merged into this article here, in my humble opinion; there is an extreme amount of duplicate content). -- [[User:2A1ZA|2A1ZA]] ([[User talk:2A1ZA|talk]]) 21:20, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
*Alright, let's start with a merger then see how we feel after that. {{ping|120.18.107.52|2A1ZA|Cedewey|FunkMonk|Gob Lofa|Masonpew|Nizolan|Patetez|Zoupan}} What do you think? [[User:Charles Essie|Charles Essie]] ([[User talk:Charles Essie|talk]]) 19:45, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
: I'm good with a merger. [[User:Cedewey|Cedewey]] ([[User talk:Cedewey|talk]]) 02:26, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
:: Support merger, same conflict after all.--[[User:Catlemur|Catlemur]] ([[User talk:Catlemur|talk]]) 14:41, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
: Support merge. [[User:Masonpew|morsontologica]] ([[User talk:Masonpew|talk]]) 22:22, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
*'''Support merge'''.--[[User_talk:Zoupan|Z<small>oupan</small>]] 05:55, 17 December 2016 (UTC)
::btw, shouldn't the information on the "social revolution" be at [[Rojava]], only summarized here?--[[User_talk:Zoupan|Z<small>oupan</small>]] 06:04, 17 December 2016 (UTC)
:::I suppose. [[User:Charles Essie|Charles Essie]] ([[User talk:Charles Essie|talk]]) 20:56, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
Okay, split discussion aside, It sounds to me like we have consensus to merge. Does everyone agree? [[User:Charles Essie|Charles Essie]] ([[User talk:Charles Essie|talk]]) 20:57, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
*{{ping|120.18.107.52|2A1ZA|Catlemur|Cedewey|FunkMonk|Gob Lofa|Masonpew|Nizolan|Patetez|Zoupan}} Sorry to bother you guys but it’s been over a year. Are we merging or not? [[User:Charles Essie|Charles Essie]] ([[User talk:Charles Essie|talk]]) 02:43, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
::Go ahead.--[[User_talk:Zoupan|Z<small>oupan</small>]] 02:44, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
:Do it.--[[User:Catlemur|Catlemur]] ([[User talk:Catlemur|talk]]) 11:06, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
: I support the merger. [[User:Cedewey|Cedewey]] ([[User talk:Cedewey|talk]]) 04:14, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
::'''Oppose''' the proposal to merge [[Syrian Kurdish–Islamist conflict (2013–present)]] into [[Rojava conflict]] on the grounds of [[WP:TOOBIG]]. The combinged size of the two articles is too large (72k+65k=137k), there is relatively little that is straightforward duplication (as the former page is a detailed timeline and hard to reduce in size without losing information), and the pages are already appropriately linked in a summary/main format through the section [[Rojava conflict#Syrian Kurdish–Islamist conflict]]. Subsequent merge and split proposals also make this particular proposal impractical to implement. [[User:Klbrain|Klbrain]] ([[User talk:Klbrain|talk]]) 08:40, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.''</div><!-- Template:pollbottom -->

== Merger proposal (duplicated article) ==

User @[[User:LogFTW|LogFTW]] has tried to move [[Rojava conflict]] to [[Syrian Kurdistan confict]] and has ended up creating two pages. They said the reason was that "Syrian Kurdistan" is the "correct name" however it has been [[Talk:Rojava/Archive 1#Requested move 18 January 2015|discussed]] already and "Rojava" was chosen. Also "conflict" is spelled wrong. <small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:FugeeCamp|FugeeCamp]] ([[User talk:FugeeCamp|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/FugeeCamp|contribs]]) 22:41, 20 October 2015 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== External links modified ==

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to {{plural:11|one external link|11 external links}} on [[Rojava conflict]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=707083305 my edit]. If necessary, add {{tlx|cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{tlx|nobots|deny{{=}}InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20130209210918/http://www.rudaw.net:80/english/news/syria/5716.html to http://www.rudaw.net/english/news/syria/5716.html
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20121114074519/http://www.israelnationalnews.com:80/News/News.aspx/161915 to http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/161915#.UPrOHSf7JCh
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20110917033604/http://www.rudaw.net:80/english/news/syria/3941.html to http://www.rudaw.net/english/news/syria/3941.html
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20120723012730/http://www.rudaw.net:80/english/news/syria/4964.html to http://www.rudaw.net/english/news/syria/4964.html
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20120801020239/http://www.rudaw.net:80/english/news/syria/5010.html to http://www.rudaw.net/english/news/syria/5010.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120721142617/http://www.rudaw.net/english/kurds/4978.html to http://www.rudaw.net/english/kurds/4978.html
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20120724224808/http://www.rudaw.net:80/english/news/syria/4984.html to http://www.rudaw.net/english/news/syria/4984.html
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20131225040625/http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/07/23/3400914/fighting-in-syria-indicates-bashar.html to http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/07/23/3400914/fighting-in-syria-indicates-bashar.html
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20121129100410/http://www.rudaw.net:80/english/news/syria/4992.html to http://www.rudaw.net/english/news/syria/4992.html
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120728023132/http://www.rudaw.net/english/news/syria/4999.html to http://www.rudaw.net/english/news/syria/4999.html
*Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20150403171641/http://www.rudaw.net/kurmanci/rojava/15041.html to http://www.rudaw.net/kurmanci/rojava/15041.html

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== External links modified ==

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== Ethnicity ==

In January 2016, YPG militias conducted a surprise attack on Assyrian checkpoints in Qamishli, in a predominantly Assyrian area, killing one Assyrian and wounding three others.<ref>http://www.aina.org/news/20160112034707.htm</ref><ref><nowiki>http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2016/04/25/christian-assyrian-clash-kurds-syria/</nowiki></ref><ref>https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/revisiting-kurdish-tolerance-ypg-attacks-assyrian-militia/</ref><ref>http://aa.com.tr/en/politics/syrias-christians-pressured-by-forced-pyd-assimilation/541614</ref>


Aina, Breitbart, aa and almasdarnews are not reliable sources. [[User:Ferakp|Ferakp]] ([[User talk:Ferakp|talk]]) 00:22, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

== YPG-Turkish Conflict ==

Hi, the section under YPG-Turkish Conflict needs to be updated. Let us not forget to add the [[YPG]] is a [[terrorist organisation]] that has direct links to and trains [[PKK]] members. -[[Special:Contributions/78.171.140.252|78.171.140.252]] ([[User talk:78.171.140.252|talk]]) 22:27, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

== Name of article is OR ==

The mame of this article is OR, and cannot be found in international media. I suggest renaming it to something like Kurdish campaign in northern Syria or PYD military activities or something along that. The name "rojava" itself is not recognized or used by international media and is not neutral. How about naming the areas under ISIL the "Caliphate land"? [[User:عمرو بن كلثوم|Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم]] ([[User talk:عمرو بن كلثوم|talk]]) 03:19, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

== Iraqi Kurdistan–Rojava relations ==

I've created a [[Draft:Iraqi Kurdistan–Rojava relations|draft article]] about relations between [[Iraqi Kurdistan]] and [[Rojava]] using a paragraph from [[Foreign relations of Rojava]]. It needs a lot of work and I'd truly appreciate some help in developing it. [[User:Charles Essie|Charles Essie]] ([[User talk:Charles Essie|talk]]) 16:25, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
:I would instead have it as a section at [[Foreign relations of Rojava]].--[[User_talk:Zoupan|Z<small>oupan</small>]] 22:00, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

==Requested merger: Merging the [[Rojava–Syrian government relations]] article into this [[Rojava conflict]] article==

In order to make the jungle of Rojava-related issues more comprehensible for the Wikipedia user, I strongly recommend to merge the [[Rojava–Syrian government relations]] article into this [[Rojava conflict]] article, which already has sections for the topic anyway, and duplicates much of the content. -- [[User:2A1ZA|2A1ZA]] ([[User talk:2A1ZA|talk]]) 23:46, 17 December 2016 (UTC)
*'''Keep and Rename''' to [[Rojava–Syria relations]].[[User:Greyshark09|'''''GreyShark''''']] ([[User talk:Greyshark09|''dibra'']]) 08:43, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
*'''Support merge''', we do not need 10 articles on the same topic, especially if half are copies of eachother.--[[User_talk:Zoupan|Z<small>oupan</small>]] 21:59, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. The article has been renamed to [[DFNS–Syria relations]]. It is also a [[WP:summary style]] sub-topic of {{section link|Democratic Federation of Northern Syria|External relations}}, so that would seem to have an equal, if not stronger claim as the merge target. – [[User:Wbm1058|wbm1058]] ([[User talk:Wbm1058|talk]]) 18:21, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

== Rojava-Turkey conflict ==

This section needs a major edit since it includes huge sections copied from the main article of [[Rojava]]. -[[User:Human like you|Human like you]] ([[User talk:Human like you|talk]]) 05:42, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
:Any conflict should be based here and summarized there, not the other way around.--[[User_talk:Zoupan|Z<small>oupan</small>]] 21:57, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

==Requested merger: Merging the [[YPG–FSA relations]] article into this [[Rojava conflict]] article==

In order to make the jungle of Rojava-related issues more comprehensible for the Wikipedia user, I strongly recommend to merge the [[YPG–FSA relations]] article into this [[Rojava conflict]] article, which already has sections for the topic anyway, and duplicates much of the content. -- [[User:2A1ZA|2A1ZA]] ([[User talk:2A1ZA|talk]]) 07:54, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' - this is about relations, not just conflict.[[User:Greyshark09|'''''GreyShark''''']] ([[User talk:Greyshark09|''dibra'']]) 14:48, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

*'''Support''' - Further review shows that the topics of these two overlap quite a lot- they should be merged if the [[YPG-FSA relations]] article stays in its state.. [[User:Belsima|Belsima]] ([[User talk:Belsima|talk]]) 13:06, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' - This article about the social revolution taking place in Northern Syria. The conflict is conflict is covered in [[Syrian Kurdish–Islamist conflict (2013–present)]]. So, if anything, [[YPG–FSA relations]] should be merged into that article. [[User:Charles Essie|Charles Essie]] ([[User talk:Charles Essie|talk]]) 19:43, 1 September 2018 (UTC)


==References==
==References==
{{Reflist}}
{{Reflist}}

== Renaming this page ==

I am suggesting to change the name to "Kurdish campaign in Syria", to better represent what's going on, rather a vague name. The reasons for this are:
:There is no notability for the name "rojava" (aside from Google searches showing Wikipedia articles or Kurdish parties propaganda) or any international political recognition.
:There are no clear or recognized borders of the so-called "rojava". Even the maps used on the main article "rojava" keep changing every week or so.
:The war in the area is more or less one-sided. YPG militias advancing and IS retreating under US-led air strikes.
I hope to get some ideas here. Thanks, [[User:عمرو بن كلثوم|Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم]] ([[User talk:عمرو بن كلثوم|talk]]) 04:07, 10 January 2017 (UTC)
:Please note that '''Rojava''' denotes a de facto existing distinct framework of civil governance in distinct parts of Northern Syria, there are 5 Million Google hits for it including all major English language media, and this is what the entire [[Rojava]] article on the Wikipedia is about. You may personally dislike anything about this sentence, or the well-sourced elaboration of facts in the [[Rojava]] article and in other articles, but your dislike is no valid reason to delete related material from the Wikipedia, or rename articles to your personal political liking. -- [[User:2A1ZA|2A1ZA]] ([[User talk:2A1ZA|talk]]) 00:54, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

"Northern Syria Campaign" is the most neutral name in my opinion. Be aware that since early 2015, other ethnic groups like Arabs, Assyrians and Turkmen are involved too. It was initially a Kurdish campaign, but it's now multi-ethnic.[[Special:Contributions/79.246.21.154|79.246.21.154]] ([[User talk:79.246.21.154|talk]]) 16:06, 16 January 2017 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' - this is not about conflict.[[User:Greyshark09|'''''GreyShark''''']] ([[User talk:Greyshark09|''dibra'']]) 16:01, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
:*I agree. This page is mainly about the social revolution taking place in Northern Syria. I think we should merge the content here that is about the conflict into [[Syrian Kurdish–Islamist conflict (2013–present)]], then we could move that page to '''[[Northern Syria conflict]]''' or something like that, and then move this page to '''{{no redirect|Rojava Revolution}}'''. [[User:Charles Essie|Charles Essie]] ([[User talk:Charles Essie|talk]]) 18:32, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

::*The term "Northern Syria conflict" can also include the conflict between rebel and government forces in northern Syria, making it overly ambiguous and non-specific. Rojava is still a common name for the region. [[User:Editor abcdef|Editor abcdef]] ([[User talk:Editor abcdef|talk]]) 03:44, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
:::*Fair enough, so what do you think of '''{{no redirect|Rojava Revolution}}'''? [[User:Charles Essie|Charles Essie]] ([[User talk:Charles Essie|talk]]) 19:47, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

== Neutrality concerns ==

This article has a lot of issues with regards to neutrality, especially the "Social revolution" section, which can not be considered to be coming from a factual and neutral point of view. Assistance in improving this article would be appriciated. [[User:AntonSamuel|AntonSamuel]] ([[User talk:AntonSamuel|talk]]) 11:45, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

::Are there any particular claims made in the body of the article that are disputed? The lack of inline citations is a concern, of course. What would be a more neutral way to characterize the political project going on, then? [[Special:Contributions/71.163.107.151|71.163.107.151]] ([[User talk:71.163.107.151|talk]]) 00:11, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

== Speedy rename ==

The article has been renamed from [[Rojava conflict]] to [[Kurdish campaign in Syria]]. I believe the new name is against [[WP:NPOV]]. I suggest a speedy revert. [[User:Nice4What|Nice4What]] ([[User talk:Nice4What|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Nice4What|contribs]]) – <small>(Don't forget to share a [[Help:Notifications/Thanks|Thanks]] <span style="color:#4dac8b;">♥</span>)</small> 01:34, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

I suggest a speedy keep. "Rojava" is not a real place and is not recognized as such by any nation, even its official name is the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria. --[[User:Supreme Deliciousness|Supreme Deliciousness]] ([[User talk:Supreme Deliciousness|talk]]) 08:41, 10 October 2019 (UTC)


== Photos ==
== Photos ==
Line 250: Line 27:
:I agree with you. [[User:Tradedia|<span style="color:#ffffff;background:black;">Tradedia</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Tradedia|talk]]</sup> 13:55, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
:I agree with you. [[User:Tradedia|<span style="color:#ffffff;background:black;">Tradedia</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Tradedia|talk]]</sup> 13:55, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
Yes YPG has 35k members include just 5k YPJ woman. Can someone reduce woman pictures, this is just propaganda. [[User:Shadow4dark|Shadow4dark]] ([[User talk:Shadow4dark|talk]]) 23:15, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
Yes YPG has 35k members include just 5k YPJ woman. Can someone reduce woman pictures, this is just propaganda. [[User:Shadow4dark|Shadow4dark]] ([[User talk:Shadow4dark|talk]]) 23:15, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

== Article is in need of updates ==

The article is in need of dire updates. The last actual edit of the page in terms of written content with up-to-date material seems to be all the way back in 2017. That is two, nearly three years ago. I've added a [[Template:Update]] and will personally try my best to contribute to updating the article, but I'm just one person. It would be great if other editors can contribute to making sure this is up-to-date as well. [[User:Sisuvia|Sisuvia]] ([[User talk:Sisuvia|talk]]) 10:00, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
:The only reference to 2019 is a situation map, and there's nothing for 2020. --[[User:ExperiencedArticleFixer|ExperiencedArticleFixer]] ([[User talk:ExperiencedArticleFixer|talk]]) 07:31, 16 June 2020 (UTC)


== Renaming suggestion ==
== Renaming suggestion ==

Revision as of 05:44, 17 July 2020

Template:Syrian Civil War sanctions

References

Photos

I think there is too much photos of Kurdish woman in this article. Need to add men to balance it. DAVRONOVA.A. ✉ ⚑ 19:35, 14 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Good comment. This is a huge part of the propaganda campaign by certain users with POV here on all related articles. Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 04:53, 16 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with you. Tradediatalk 13:55, 28 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yes YPG has 35k members include just 5k YPJ woman. Can someone reduce woman pictures, this is just propaganda. Shadow4dark (talk) 23:15, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Renaming suggestion

The name here is OR at best and biased at worst. I suggest renaming to SDF campaign in Syria. Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 06:24, 22 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I want support but SDF is from 2015 and this started in 2011. Do you know better names? Shadow4dark (talk) 08:23, 22 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

May be "Kurdish YPG campaign in northern Syria". Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 15:40, 22 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

These proposals are just as bad as the current title, as they ignore the dozens of non-YPG and non-SDF groups involved in this conflict. Btw, Rojava conflict is not really OR; "Rojava revolution" gets 198.000 hits on google, including academic sources. Applodion (talk) 22:35, 22 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Using the name "rojava conflict" means that there was a region by this name, and people are fighting over it, which simply is not true. The name rojava (meaning west in Kurdish) was made up by PYD during the war to depict Kurdish-inhabited regions. Another suggestion would be "northeastern Syria conflict", which is very neutral and correctly describes the area. Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 16:30, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

See Rojava. I wouldn't describe either Afrin Region or Hajin as northeast. Konli17 (talk) 23:20, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Afrin region is no longer part of this. Last time I checked Hajin was part of Deir Ezzor, not known for having Kurds. When the Kurdish administration itself does not go by the rojava name, no entity in the world uses this name, and no map outside PYD/Kurdish sites AND wikipedia uses this name, then we should not be using this name. Here is a map of what you call rojava, made by pro-PYD people. Unless I am missing something, these are the original areas inhabited by Kurds in Syria (still mixed with Arabs for the most part). Similar maps produced by CIA, BBC, The Economist, U of Hawaii and other entities agree with this, more or less. If you want to call any area occupied by Kurdish fighters rojava, then that's military occupation, plain and simple, and Wikipedia is no place to spread this bullshit. I'll be opening this discussion on the main rojava page soon. Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 04:33, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
And BTW, Konli17 I see you're back from the block, welcome back and I hope you can engage in a more civilized discussion now. Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 04:44, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Picture of Ras al-Ayn

Using the picture of Ras al-Ayn in et his article and referring to it by a Kurdish name, rather than the centuries old Arabic name is a huge credibility problem here. This is of course no surprise give the record of pro-YPG users here. If you want to use a picture showing YPG fighters, then at least use a town that is currently under YPG occupation, there is still a few. Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 23:26, 22 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Amr. I just wanted to say that the image is supposed to depict a historical event, not the current situation. I did, however, not properly look at the image (I didn't notice the Kurdish name being used, for example). I have now adjusted the image to better reflect its intended purpose - namely, illustrating an event. Thank you for pointing out these issues. Applodion (talk) 08:14, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough, thank you. Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 04:44, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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