User talk:Davejohnsan

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GOCE February blitz wrapup

Guild of Copy Editors Wikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/Blitzes/February 2014 wrap-up Participation: Out of seven people who signed up for this blitz, all copy-edited at least one article. Thanks to all who participated! Final results, including barnstars awarded, are available here. Progress report: During the seven-day blitz, we removed 16 articles from the requests queue. Hope to see you at the March drive! Cheers from your GOCE coordinators Jonesey95, Miniapolis and Baffle gab1978. To discontinue receiving GOCE newsletters, please remove your name from our mailing list. Newsletter delivered by

GOCE July 2014 newsletter

Guild of Copy Editors July 2014 newsletter is now ready for review. Highlights: Sign up for the July 2014 Backlog elimination drive Review the Coordinators election results – Your project coordinators: Jonesey95, Baffle gab1978 and Miniapolis. To discontinue receiving GOCE newsletters, please remove your name from our mailing list. Newsletter delivered by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:27, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Translation notification: Wikimedia Highlights, May 2014

Hello Davejohnsan,

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Law & Order Season 10 Guest Stars

Dave, I've been trying to add relatively famous guest stars to the Law & Order Season 10 episode list page. Seasons 1-9's pages all include mentions of relatively famous costars on a separate line, without including them only them in the plot summary. I'm not sure why you're continuing to delete my changes. As someone who is watching Law & Order from start to finish, I had particularly enjoyed the earlier season's pages that included links for the actors I thought I might recognize. I certainly think Tom Berenger, Michael Gross, and Michael McKean all merit mention. I don't care how they're included or about the style, but I think it improves the page to list famous guest stars.

Thanks, Bertbah — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bertbah (talk • contribs) 12:44, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Left a response on your talk page. Davejohnsan (talk) 15:10, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Re: July 2014

Hi. My name is Brendan. I'd like to address the issue that you seem to have with my editing. Forgive me if this comes across as confrontational, as that is not my intention. So excuse me, but I do not appreciate the inference that I am "disruptively editing" the Criminal Minds (season 9) article... That was quite under-handed of you to label my edits as "disruptive" before even contacting me. I have watched - and purchased on DVD - every single episode of this show, and I'm merely trying to improve the page and give these reputable actors credit where it is due. Meshach Taylor just recently died, and you deleted his credit like it was nothing... I've written almost all of the episode summaries for season 9, entirely in my own words, and I uploaded the DVD cover's image. You are the one who initiated this passive-aggressive deletion of my edits; if anyone is editing disruptively, it is you.

Pardon my tone, but I'm offended that you labeled me as disruptively editing... I am an avid and loyal fan of this show, and the way in which I credited the actors does not violate any policy and, in fact, was in complete synchronicity with the way in which it was done for every preceding season, before I even joined Wikipedia. I'm not looking for any trouble here; I don't own any of the pages nor will I ever claim to do so; I respect your right to edit just as much as I respect my own. I am a new member so I am not at all familiar with any of the protocol associated with interaction with other users, or with Wikipedia's definition of disruptive editing. You seem to be an experienced member, and I respect that. All I ask is that you respect me enough to talk to me like a human being, rather than using codes and hyperlinks, trying to pass yourself off as some kind of administrator and try to intimidate me with these threats. One of the main reasons why I joined Wikipedia was so that I could help keep fellow Criminal Minds fans properly informed and to help ensure that the articles are accurate, as I love the show and have accurate information to offer, not to step on people's toes or be disruptive. I can assure you I have much better things to do.

While there is nothing inaccurate about the way you have edited the page, none of the information I provided is false, and I do not understand why you are so fixated on changing the way the actors are credited. It was fine the way it was, no one reported being confused, and going by the post regarding Law and Order, this isn't the first time you've done this. I do not like conflict, nor do I enjoy arguing with someone I don't even know over something I feel so strongly about. Once again I'd like to apologize for my tone here as it might appear to be conforontational; I am very emotionally invested in this show as it has helped me overcome many residual negative feelings from my childhood, so I'm speaking from not only an intellectual perspective, but an emotional one as well, however that is not the point. But I would really like to know, why do you interpret my addition of completely accurate credits to the actors who've guest starred in this season, in accordance with Wikipedia's policies, with the intention of merely keeping the next C.M. fan completely informed as "disruptive editing?" As I said, I am a new member and I don't want to make a bad name for myself, so I'd like to resolve this as soon as possible, using the proper dispute resolution format, and hopefully come to a peaceful compromise. I hope you understand that I'm not coming from a place of condescension or malice toward you; I just want to understand why I'm being warned for making completely accurate edits which were done in the exact same manner as were the actor credits of every other season (all of which you've deleted for some strange reason). I feel like this isn't about the format at all. I feel like you are insulting me. I've been completely honest with you, and I give you the utmost respect as you have made an extremely impressive amount of edits. My wish is to resolve this as soon as possible, using the dispute resolution format, or whichever way is best, considering the circumstances. My goal is to continue to keep fellow Criminal Minds fans informed, and to better understand how to respect Wikipedia's rules.

Also, my hope is that we can keep this between us, as I'm not even sure if the way I'm addressing this issue is proper (I only know how to edit, not interact with other members). By the way, the reason i feel it is better to list the famous guest stars on a separate line is to imply a clear, concise and structured format of the page, making it easy for other users who enjoy this show to recognize the episodes based on which actor was a guest star, and to learn who might've guest starred on their favorite episodes. I believe it presents the information in a more organized manner, also I feel it gives the actors the proper credit where it is due; I noticed this was done the exact same way before I joined, so I figured that was the best way to credit actors. I apologize for neglecting to explain my reasoning behind this, I am very new to Wikipedia, and I simply want to help present relevant information about my favorite TV show. Until now I didn't know how to explain my reasoning behind that particular style of editing. I still don't know how to go about explaining why I've made an edit, and I'd love to learn how to do that as well. Please don't report me, as I only want to resolve this disagreement, come to a peaceful compromise and remain helpful to Wikipedia as much as possible. Feel free to respond on my talk page in whatever way with which you're most comfortable. With all possible respect and sincerety, Brendan Bef3481 (talk) 06:29, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

@Bef3481: Thanks for reaching out to me. I can assure you that I am just as interested in resolving this matter as peacefully as you are, so let's talk. But before I do, I'd like to you know that the edits I made to the seasons of Criminal Minds were not in response to any edits made a specific editor. It was something I had been meaning to do for awhile, but keep neglecting due to real-world circumstances (i.e. IRL shit), but in any event that's beside the point. Still, you invested in time in contributing to these edits, so I understand your frustration.

The reason I labeled one of your edits (this one specifically) as "disruptive" had nothing to do with the content itself, but rather that you keep reinstating the disputed content after I removed it—three times, to be precise—without once providing an explanation in the edit summary or in a message either on that article's talk page or on mine. I hope you can see why that was particularly frustrating for me and led me to leave that heavy-handed message on your page.

The issue I have with the content itself is the manner in which it is presented, not with its factual accuracy. While it may not necessarily violate any specific Wikipedia policy, I do believe it goes against the idea of the "short summary." Ideally, each episode summary in a season article is only supposed to be 100 to 200 words (and if the episode has its own article, the summary can be longer), so listing all the guest stars on a separate line with bold formatting is a distraction to the plot summary. One thing I also noticed--and took issue with--on most of the Criminal Minds season articles is that the guest star lists repeated names that were already in the plot summary itself, making some of these lists redundant as well. My belief, and I'm sure there are plenty of other editors with a similar belief to this, is that the guest stars should instead be listed during the plot summary, like this: When Dr. Spencer Reid (Matthew Something)...

I'm sorry if I came down hard on you. I appreciate your desire to improve these articles, and I certainly have no intention of interfering with that. A lot of editors have strong passions for specific things, and unfortunately that does result in head butting sometimes. I can't speak for everyone, but with me I can at least assure you that I know when to put my guns away and talk things over. Thank you. Davejohnsan (talk) 16:35, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

@Davejohnsan:

Well Dave, I'm glad you're willing to talk about this. First of all I'd like to state that had I known how to provide an explanation as to why I made the edits in question, I certainly would've ...I just realized that it can be done right after the edit is made; I just always skipped that option, not even reading what it said. That is laziness on my part, and I admit that. Also, I made the assumption that you were initiating some kind of edit war, as the page remained the same for quite some time, and then you deleted a good portion of my work and after I put it back up, I felt it was personal. I'm glad to know that isn't the case.

I've been doing some research, such as looking at the formats of other shows on Wikipedia and how their respective guest stars are credited, and I agree - to some extent - with your stance on this issue. As I stated, my reasoning was that I believed my method presented the page in a more clear, concise manner, but I read your statement about the redundancies of crediting an actor already mentioned in the article, as well as the example you gave me of the edit I made with which you had a problem, and I've realized that the format I used is in direct conflict with my goal of making the page more organized and the actors properly credited.

Redundancies and contradictions like that can indeed made readers put off or the page might appear poorly organized, as you said, "contradicting the idea of a short summary." Therefore, I'd like to propose a compromise: I credit all of the famous actors whose guest-starring in the given episode deserves mention throughout the series, who aren't mentioned in the episode description, and otherwise uncredited, especially in the later seasons where more famous faces started to make guest appearances, considering that they are credited on the individual disc cases of the season 7 and 8 DVD box sets. I will do so exactly the way you did for season 9 (e.g. Episode 5: "Route 66," in which you credited Meredith Monroe as Haley and C. Thomas Howell as the Boston Reaper). I'll use only this format, and only credit the actors whose names are more easily recognized, within reason, adhering to Wikipedia's policies of course, and I'll provide explanations when doing so. If they aren't already mentioned, I'll find a way to incorporate them into the plot summary, while keeping it short, as you did with Season 9's Route 66, and as I sort of did with Season 8, ep. 2: "The Pact."

I believe this is a reasonable compromise and I hope you can agree with me here. I believe these actors deserve credit where it is due. Feel free to tell me what you think, I'm confident that this compromise will effectively end this dispute and allow me to continue to help keep my fellow avid Criminal Minds fans informed. By the way, I do accept your apology, I am new to Wikipedia and sort of pleading the fifth on this one lol so I appreciate the apology for coming down on me. Much respect; thanks for allowing me to discuss this with you, as I'd like to keep a good reputation. Truce? Sincerely, Brendan Bef3481 (talk) 22:59, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

I've edited season 9 in the manner in which you described, I kinda like this format now that I think about it; hope this is what you meant. I hope this way of crediting is in synch with what you thought to be more practical, and I hope I didn't do so disruptively. I'll gladly delete it myself if necessary, but I think this is a good compromise. I hope you agree, and that we can put this to rest. Hope to hear back from you soon. :) Bef3481 (talk) 04:09, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

All good! Thank you. Davejohnsan (talk) 05:02, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

No problem! Thank you for your cooperation; it is much appreciated. Cheers!

Sincerely, Brendan F. Bef3481 (talk) 14:58, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

You're very welcome. By the way, I think you deserve to know that I never thought once that any part of your message was confrontational or aggressive. It was obvious your main interest was in resolving our dispute and keeping the peace. Props to you for that. Davejohnsan (talk) 16:09, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

@Davejohnsan:

Wow! Thank you so much for awarding me the barnstar! I'm so glad that we were able to resolve this disagreement so peacefully and diplomatically. That is the ideal outcome for me. Also, thank you for the appreciation of my edits and my willingness to improve these pages and keep the next fan properly informed! I must say Dave, you are a class act. Much respect, and happy translating! As someone who is also bilingual, even though I speak French, not Spanish, I know how difficult it can be, at times, to translate properly, and I was particularly impressed when I read that you're starting to be a translator for Wikipedia Commons. Keep up the good work and thank you so much for the Civility Barnstar. I wish you much joy and happiness. Sincerely, Brendan F. Bef3481 (talk) 16:35, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

American Dad! reversed edits

I noticed that you had reversed my edits on the American Dad! pages. I honestly think mine are the best shot because the American Dad episode order are getting really shitty. Adding the three unaired episodes to season ten may be the best way to go, rather than making them count as a new three episode Season 11, and TBS being Season 12 as most press releases and sources say it is Season 11. Being honest, I think you should change the pages back to mine or someone else should just go back and fix every season. I ain't trying to sound like a bitch, but the episode list really needs to be changed back or fixed up. What are your thoughts? Spongey253 (talk) 15:01, 26 July 2014 (UTC)Spongey253