User talk:Verbal/Old01

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Quackwatch

Howdy valiant Verbal; just a heads up that I'm asking (on the naturopathic medicine talk page) where in WP quackwatch/Barrett are cited as reliable sources. Merci! Lamaybe (talk) 10:13, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi, I can't remember where it was a while ago. I suggest asking either on the Barrett or QW article, or posting any questions to the RS page. Thanks for letting me know :) Merry Christmas! Verbal chat 10:16, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

What is your preference ?

You removed a recent request I posted here without either replying or archiving it. If you do not want me to post here at your talk page, then that is of course your prerogative, and I will respect that. However, you also objected when I directed the same request to you at Talk:Seth Material. To achieve collaborative editing, it is sometimes necessary to have one-to-one dialogue, as well as participating in general discussions. If you do not want me to address requests or comments to you either here or on article talk pages, how and where would you prefer us to have a dialogue ? Gandalf61 (talk) 13:18, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

I immediately actioned your request, so I simply removed it. Thanks, Verbal chat 15:30, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Seth Material

I think that your behavior on Wikipedia is dishonest, and that your actions are bad for Wikipedia in general. Redirecting people away from an article is an obvious "stealth deletion", and it amounts to censorship. Deletion should be an action of last resort only for very bad articles which have no purpose and cannot be improved, and it should only be done with a consensus or through official channels. You have glommed onto various Wikipedia principles, but in each case you are stretching the principle in order to achieve your objective of censorship. It has been explained to you repeatedly why the Seth Material is notable; but instead of deferring to people with greater knowledge of the subject, you continue to insist on your narrow view. The Fringe principle is supposed to apply to obscure scientific theories, yet the Seth Material has nothing to do with science. The In Universe principle is supposed to apply to fiction, yet the Seth Material is not fiction. Furthermore, if the article is deleted, how can it be improved? (But then, you don't really want it improved, do you?) The lack of second-party references is merely an issue to be addressed, not a cause for deletion. In the mean time, you would deprive readers of the opportunity to judge the article for themselves.

What you and Moreschi really are is bullies. You twist the rules to deprive other people of their rights to read and write articles of their choosing. Any rule can be twisted to purposes that it wasn't intended for, and using the rules to censor the encyclopedia -- i.e., to decrease the amount of information in it -- is about as odious as it gets.

Ah, I see you're a Christian. Now I know why you're doing it.--Caleb Murdock (talk) 01:40, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

I didn't redirect the article. If you noticed I was working with you to try and fix the article, which is very poorly written. Wikipedia is not a battleground, and we have policies about being civil and not making personal attacks. I do not want to remove your page because I am a Christian, and I find your suggestion offensive. It should be well sourced, as I have repeatedly said on the talk page. People who cry censorship on a free service that anyone can edit, when the material is being removed because it fails basic policies, are the ones with problems. But they aren't bad for the project - they just need to learn wikipedia policies and contribute within the communities wishes. Verbal chat 07:28, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

You still don't seem to GET the fact that Wikipedia is an evolving site, and that the way to improve an article is to leave it on the system so people can keep working on it. Furthermore, the Seth Material is a subject of some significance to a lot of people, and your desire to delete the article shows a clear bias of SOME KIND, and certainly it shows a lack of knowledge of the field of paranormal activity. Your assertion that you have tried to work with me is a laugh because, at the same time that you've supposedly done that, you have continued to look for reasons to delete the article. A person like you is harmful to Wikipedia.--Caleb Murdock (talk) 07:38, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

No, the main space is for notable topics that are referenced. If you want to work on the article in this state ask for it to be copied to you userspace. When you have provided secondary and tertiary sources then it is worthy of inclusion. My bias is towards wikipedia policies in this respect - principally WP:NPOV, WP:NOTE, WP:V and WP:RS. Again, I have not tired to delete the article, nor look for reasons. Put your energy into improving the article. Verbal chat 07:41, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Your edits are just astonishingly clumsy, and usually they don't add any clarity to the text. Why do you bother? And why do you think that you can responsibly edit an article about a subject you know nothing about?--Caleb Murdock (talk) 08:13, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Stop your personal attacks please, they will get you blocked. You could have removed the typo yourself, or alerted me, rather than vandalising the article. Please stop being rude and simply source the article. I'd rather you did it over at the Jane Roberts page. Verbal chat 08:16, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Seth

Oooh thanks for the heads up, I commented. If you can't get a merged agreed on there, I'd suggest taking it to AfD, as the 'normal' people at AfD, who aren't into this stuff, would all say it should be merged/redirected (worth a go, anyway.) Sticky Parkin 12:20, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree for what it's worth. Nothing good is happening with that article, best to get some outside views to break the stalemate. I do think the article has been subjected to unfair scrutiny while less notable subjects stay, but if you get a consensus at AfD, that will have to stand one way or the other. 70.186.172.75 (talk) 13:12, 1 December 2008 (UTC)