Wikipedia talk:Biographies of living persons: Difference between revisions

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For the sake of the example let's state that the source in question is from a reputable publisher, but lacks an example or a case. It is just a trivial "X is a bigot" and nothing more.
For the sake of the example let's state that the source in question is from a reputable publisher, but lacks an example or a case. It is just a trivial "X is a bigot" and nothing more.
Certainly, most editors would look at first example and remove it as an attack. The second will almost certainly remain because the existence of the opinion is verifiable even if the contentious claim is not. Essentially, signing off that it is okay because the source says X is a bigot. Is it still a BLP issue? If it is not allowable, what policy specifically prohibits it? [[User:ChrisGualtieri|ChrisGualtieri]] ([[User talk:ChrisGualtieri|talk]]) 00:18, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Certainly, most editors would look at first example and remove it as an attack. The second will almost certainly remain because the existence of the opinion is verifiable even if the contentious claim is not. Essentially, signing off that it is okay because the source says X is a bigot. Is it still a BLP issue? If it is not allowable, what policy specifically prohibits it? [[User:ChrisGualtieri|ChrisGualtieri]] ([[User talk:ChrisGualtieri|talk]]) 00:18, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

: An interesting question. I think that an accusation of a wrongdoing is (nearly) always an opinion. Wikipedia's core content policy, [[WP:NPOV]] (at [[WP:YESPOV]]), requires that opinions not be stated as facts, which the "X is a" form would do. This is especially so where the wrongdoing relates to an internal thought process, such as in this example. The "Y accuses" positions the accusation as an attributed opinion, and is more clearly compliant.
: Additionally, I think it's worth noting that (IMHO) the purpose of the biographies of living persons policy ([[WP:BLP]]) is not to protect living persons (although this is a pleasing side effect); but to protect Wikipedia from slandering or libeling living persons (and the consequences thereof). The "Y accuses" form, in conjunction with requiring a supporting reliable source, makes it clear that it is not Wikipedia making the accusation.
: Hope this helps in some small way. I am interested in the ongoing discussion, and any other alternate thoughts. - [[User:Ryk72|Ryk72]] <sup>[[User talk:Ryk72|'c.s.n.s.']]</sup> 01:39, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Revision as of 01:39, 30 January 2015

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Accusations and accusations as opinions in BLPs

I am not aware of any policies covering the distinction between verifiability of criticism existence and the veracity of the criticism itself. There is very little difference in an accusation of a wrongdoing and an opinion which makes an accusation of wrongdoing. As of right now, these two statements typically are treated entirely different:

  • X is a bigot.(source calling X a bigot)
  • Y accuses X of being a bigot.(source calling X a bigot)

For the sake of the example let's state that the source in question is from a reputable publisher, but lacks an example or a case. It is just a trivial "X is a bigot" and nothing more. Certainly, most editors would look at first example and remove it as an attack. The second will almost certainly remain because the existence of the opinion is verifiable even if the contentious claim is not. Essentially, signing off that it is okay because the source says X is a bigot. Is it still a BLP issue? If it is not allowable, what policy specifically prohibits it? ChrisGualtieri (talk) 00:18, 30 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

An interesting question. I think that an accusation of a wrongdoing is (nearly) always an opinion. Wikipedia's core content policy, WP:NPOV (at WP:YESPOV), requires that opinions not be stated as facts, which the "X is a" form would do. This is especially so where the wrongdoing relates to an internal thought process, such as in this example. The "Y accuses" positions the accusation as an attributed opinion, and is more clearly compliant.
Additionally, I think it's worth noting that (IMHO) the purpose of the biographies of living persons policy (WP:BLP) is not to protect living persons (although this is a pleasing side effect); but to protect Wikipedia from slandering or libeling living persons (and the consequences thereof). The "Y accuses" form, in conjunction with requiring a supporting reliable source, makes it clear that it is not Wikipedia making the accusation.
Hope this helps in some small way. I am interested in the ongoing discussion, and any other alternate thoughts. - Ryk72 'c.s.n.s.' 01:39, 30 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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