Talk:French and Indian War: Difference between revisions

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I HAVE A BELLY BUTTON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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-{{WikiProject England|class=B|importance=high}}
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-{{Archive box|[[Talk:French and Indian War/Archive 1|Archive 1]]}}
-==Name and lead==
-:''See [[Talk:French and Indian War/Archive 1#Naming|Archive 1: Naming]]
-I think that the introduction needs altering to emphasize that this is a name used in the US to describe the conflict but not elsewhere in the English speaking world. --[[User:Philip Baird Shearer|Philip Baird Shearer]] ([[User talk:Philip Baird Shearer|talk]]) 10:06, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
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-Further to this, I have never heard the term 'War of the Conquest' used by Canadian Anglophones.  The convention 'Seven Years War' is pretty much universal, the same as in the rest of the world.  The word 'Conquest' would be seen as very undesirable, although it may reflect legitimate opinion by some in Quebec (hence ''La Guerre de la Conquête'').  I won't edit this right away, and perhaps someone can cite evidence that 'War of the Conquest' is actually in use.[[User:Joe Photon|Joe Photon]] ([[User talk:Joe Photon|talk]]) 17:45, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
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-Do note that the word "Conquest" does not refer to an opinion, it is a historical fact. The British conquered the territories that were under the rule of the King of France. It is interesting to note why would the  'War of the Conquest' not be used by Canadian Anglophones... Maybe to spare sensibilites. The term "La Conquête" in the French-Canadian perspective is useful to define a kind of historical hinge point.  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/216.99.55.133|216.99.55.133]] ([[User talk:216.99.55.133|talk]]) 02:02, 2 February 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
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-<small>(moved to correct place in sequence.[[User:Xyl 54|Xyl 54]] ([[User talk:Xyl 54|talk]]) 13:44, 29 July 2009 (UTC))</small><br />
-I agree with [[User:Philip Baird Shearer|Philip Baird Shearer]] on the nomenclature.  Looking in my family's library, all the Canadian history books on the shelf refer to the conflict as the Seven Years War, while treating the subject separately from the Seven Years War in Europe<ref>Leacock, Stephen (1941). Canada: The Foundations of its Future. Privately Printed. Montreal</ref><ref>Lamb, W. Kaye (1971) Canada's Five Centuries.  McGraw-Hill. ISBN:0-07-092907-6</ref>  In my schooling through the early 2000's, this nomenclature was also used.  I will change the first sentence of the article to reflect canadian usage.  A redirect will be added from "The Seven Years War (North America).  The disambiguation page does not seem to need changing as it already refers to the convention of referring to the North American theatre of the Seven Years War.--[[User:Fbfree|Fbfree]] ([[User talk:Fbfree|talk]]) 06:44, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
-== Slobodan Milosovic, Wikipedia Historian ==
-This phrase in the Outcome section is extremely distorted:
-"the British had expelled French settlers from Acadia (some of whom eventually fled to Louisiana, creating the Cajun population)"
-The British carried out a famous and famously-deadly forced march to Louisiana of Acadians who refused to swear allegiance to the British crown. At a minimum this genocidal infamy could be noted as:
-"the British had expelled French settlers from Acadia (some of whom were force-marched to Louisiana, creating the Cajun population)
-:Forced march?  Why didn't they just ship them down the Mississippi on barges?  I'm amazed the british had the patience required for such a march.[[User:Driftwoodzebulin|Zebulin]] ([[User talk:Driftwoodzebulin|talk]]) 05:53, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
-==Balance==
-A great deal of space in this article is devoted to the leadup to the war; the war itself occupies just three dense paragraphs.  No discussions of logistics and war planning on anyone's part.  I wonder if there should be campaign-style articles for each year.  (I know, I could be [[WP:BOLD|bold]]; I'm currently frying other fish.) ''[[User:Magicpiano|<span style="background-color:khaki;color:firebrick;">Magic</span>]]''[[User_talk:Magicpiano|♪piano]] 16:07, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
-== Becoming Canada ==
-I find the following statement to be quite odd, considering that Canada did not come into being until more than a century later.
-"The conflict, the fourth such colonial war between the nations of France and Great Britain, resulted in the British conquest of Canada.[5]"
-The Treaty of Paris, 1763, resulted in King Louis 15th ceding New France, Acadia and New Orleans, along with the Louisiana territory, to the British. There were two very significant consequences. The first was that the Catholic Church lost political claim to the continent of North America. Until that time, the headquarters of the Catholic Church was in Quebec (City). It is quite remarkable to think of what might have happened had France not lost. A map posted on the site of Quebec survivance author and professor at Marianopolis College clearly shows this <ref>See Marianopolis College, Claude Bélanger, "Quebec History" La Guerre de Sept Ans au Canada/The Seven Years War in Canada</ref>. Professor Bélanger's site clearly expresses a significant Francophone perspective on these events.
-The second significant item was that the lineage of King Georges became rulers of the North American colonies, eventually resulting in the revolution that created the United States of America.
-Thirdly, and equally significantly in Canada, was that directly after the time of the transfer of property, the British Crown (King George III)agreed to protect the rights of Aboriginal peoples <ref>see The Canadian Encyclopedia "Royal Proclamation of 1763"</ref>. due to increasing restlessness south of the border, and in order to forestall franchophone alliances with the Americans, the Treaty of Quebec, 1774, promised French Canadians the right to live as Catholics, gave the Catholic Church powers of taxation, granted Quebec its own internal governance and the right to practice their own civil law. <ref>See Citizendium "Quebec, History"</ref>. Thus the pre-constitutional rights of Aboriginal peoples and of the francophone in Canada flow from the conversion of New France to British rule, and the events this set in motion.
-The Canadian Encyclopedia notes that the Quebec Act of 1774 resulted in the splitting of the former colony of Quebec into Upper and Lower Canada, today roughly equivalent to the provinces of Ontario and Quebec, though at that time the areas were much larger, stretching into the northern United States and westward into the what is now Western Canada. <ref> see The Canadian Encyclopedia, "Province of Quebec, 1763-91"</ref>
-It is slightly nonsensical, though, to say that the British "conquered" Canada, with the term 'Canada' being the nonsensical part. It might be said, depending on what your politics are, that the British conquered the French when the British General Wolfe defeated the French Marquis de Montcalm in a heroic battle fought on the Plains of Abraham in Quebec City in 1759, in which both leaders lost their lives. The British did win, but at great cost. Francophones writing in the survivance tradition, such as Claude Bélanger, do term the British takeover a "conquest", but not of Canada, which did not exist, but of North America, which was French. The significance is much greater. However, it might be more accurate to say that King Louis 15th "sold out" his French interests due to lack of strategic action or misplaced confidence and resources, which is not to say that British were not all too glad to take advantage of this. <ref>see The Canadian Encyclopedia, New France</ref><ref>see also the Wikipedia reference for King Louis 15th, which presents him sympatheticaly as a ruler facing difficult decisions</ref>
-I await a response!
-[[User:Sookevista|Sookevista]] ([[User talk:Sookevista|talk]]) 09:04, 8 January 2010 (UTC) Sookevista
-:You did follow the link for [[Canada, New France|Canada]], yes? "Canada" is not a name that only came into existence in 1867.  (It is arguable that this link is an [[WP:EGG|easter egg]], and should be exposed.)  "Canada" is used, for example, throughout American period writings in the [[American Revolutionary War]], even though the place was '''then''' called [[Province of Quebec (1763-1791)|Quebec]].
-:Second, you did read the section entitled "Consequences", yes?  It addresses some of your issues (such as the impact on natives, the Royal Proclamation of 1763, and the Quebec Act of 1774), but not others (impact on the Catholic Church).
-:Third, calling North America Catholic (or French) at the time would be rather POV -- I can think of at least fourteen British Protestant reasons why, not to mention the uncounted native ones.  The fact that France had a large territorial claim is mitigated by the relatively tenuous control it had over most of that territory; this war shows that France was unwilling or unable to defend its claims.
-:Fourth, this (quoting you above):
-::The Canadian Encyclopedia notes that the Quebec Act of 1774 resulted in the splitting of the former colony of Quebec into Upper and Lower Canada.
-:This is strange; please show me the where this reading appears in [http://www.solon.org/Constitutions/Canada/English/PreConfederation/qa_1774.html the act's text].  (Perhaps you meant the [[Constitutional Act of 1791]]?)
-:It is true that the [[WP:LEAD|article lead]] is deficient in summarizing some of these things. [[WP:BOLD|Be bold]]. ''[[User:Magicpiano|<span style="background-color:khaki;color:firebrick;">Magic</span>]]''[[User_talk:Magicpiano|♪piano]] 14:02, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
-The war was against the French and the British. The Mohawk Indians were allies of the French. They helped them in the war. the British won the war.They fought for the land west of the Mississippi River.
-== Edit request from 208.64.220.242, 5 November 2010 ==
-{{tlf|edit semi-protected}}
-<!-- Begin request -->
-In the beginning of this article, at the forth paragraph, there is a minor, although important, error.  The paragraph reads as below:
-The outcome was one of the most significant developments in a century of Anglo-French conflict. To compensate its ally, Spain, for its loss of Florida to the British, France ceded its control of French Louisiana east of the Mississippi. France's colonial presence north of the Caribbean was reduced to the tiny islands of Saint Pierre and Miquelon, confirming Britain's position as the dominant colonial power in the eastern half of North America.
-In the second sentence the word 'east' should be 'west'.  To compensate Spain, France gave the future Louisiana Purchase property to Spain (this is WEST of the Mississippi!)  The French held property EAST of the Mississippi was ceded to Britain.
-john.gower@yahoo.com
-<!-- End request -->
-[[Special:Contributions/208.64.220.242|208.64.220.242]] ([[User talk:208.64.220.242|talk]]) 22:40, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
-:Thanks for pointing this out. ''[[User:Magicpiano|<span style="background-color:khaki;color:firebrick;">Magic</span>]]''[[User_talk:Magicpiano|♪piano]] 02:11, 6 November 2010 (UTC)