Talk:Ögedei Khan/Archive 1
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| Archive 1 |
Untitled
"There have been rumors and myths where he committed adultery and had a kid with his daughter. He accused her for witchcraft and executed her and his son by being trampled by horses then being burned." That´s hard. Where is it from?
That is sort of like Genghis Khan treating his first "son" like a son. Genghis Khan didn't kill his son but deprived himof being his successor.
- Jochi may well have been his natural son. No one knows nor can it be proven either way.104.169.18.4 (talk) 00:26, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
Idiotic citation
Seriously, you are using a fantasy novel as a citation for the European invasion. Get real. 173.8.132.118 (talk) 17:56, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
I was thinking the same and deleted this:
Mongol forces were moving on Vienna, launching a fierce winter campaign against Austria and Germany in the first wave into Western Europe, when Ögedei died.
The Mongols have never been anywhere in Germany. The main reason why they didn't attack is because the mongols weren't allmighty. Germany was heavily wooded and the german forces were way stronger than the polish or hungarian forces. Mongols needed wide fields for their tactics. Attacking the holy roman empire in such a terrain would have been a suicide mission.
If you read Wikipedia's own article about the mongols in hungary, you will read that the Hungarians kept the mongols east of the Danube until winter 1492. Ögedai died in December 1491. In 1492 only small Mongolian forces chased King Bela through Croatia, where they suffered several defeats, until they finally retreated. 2003:81:6D01:DC01:CC6D:5F17:4693:5186 (talk) 16:48, 29 May 2014 (UTC)--2003:81:6D01:DC01:CC6D:5F17:4693:5186 (talk) 16:48, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
germany is not powerful enough to put up a credible force to stop the mongols. Give me one source germany has enough cavalry to beat the mongols. Most likely they dont have the resources and the manpower to stop subotai really. Subotai won all of the hardest battle europe can muster, there is no doubt in my mind he is confident to overthrow all of the princes in europe, its just unfortunate the leadership after ogedei wouldnt support batu's european campaign and took away his best general subotai. i dont believe the mongols are afraid of the germans, if anything they dont know much about teutonic knights but just another enemy. wooded terrrain are advantage for mongols thou because asian ponies can make sharp turns a normal german cavalry cannot do especailly with a full armour — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.85.230.82 (talk) 06:30, 27 December 2015 (UTC)
- The Mongols were only successful in Eastern Europe because of its sparse population. Even then, they only moved in winter, usually when Eastern European states were in chaos (e.g. in the 1260s during a Hungarian-Bulgarian war and Hungarian civil war, with the Byzantines sidelined during a Venetian occupation, and with the Lithuanians at war with the Livonian order and the Prussians in revolt), and they always enlisted the help of the Galicians and Lithuanians. Upon any advance into the mountains of Austria they would have easily been cut down by a few hundred Genoese crossbowmen, and Bohemia had the money to hire them. Any further into the Holy Roman Empire and the various states of the HRE would have finally agreed to the Pope's idea of a crusade against the Tatars; they'd also be up against densely populated Germany, who could supply countless mercenaries domestically. If this is incorrect, why did the Mongols only try to invade Europe once every 20-25 years? Face it, they were good at bullying slavs and bulgars, but Western Europe was way out of the Mongols' league. AllGloryToTheHypnotoad (talk) 21:43, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
- China was much more densely populated than Europe - sorry, the only reason Europe had some advantage was that the Mongols were simply over-extended. But this is all moot - the TP's are not a forum nor a place for Original Research. 104.169.18.4 (talk) 00:24, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
- The Mongols were only successful in Eastern Europe because of its sparse population. Even then, they only moved in winter, usually when Eastern European states were in chaos (e.g. in the 1260s during a Hungarian-Bulgarian war and Hungarian civil war, with the Byzantines sidelined during a Venetian occupation, and with the Lithuanians at war with the Livonian order and the Prussians in revolt), and they always enlisted the help of the Galicians and Lithuanians. Upon any advance into the mountains of Austria they would have easily been cut down by a few hundred Genoese crossbowmen, and Bohemia had the money to hire them. Any further into the Holy Roman Empire and the various states of the HRE would have finally agreed to the Pope's idea of a crusade against the Tatars; they'd also be up against densely populated Germany, who could supply countless mercenaries domestically. If this is incorrect, why did the Mongols only try to invade Europe once every 20-25 years? Face it, they were good at bullying slavs and bulgars, but Western Europe was way out of the Mongols' league. AllGloryToTheHypnotoad (talk) 21:43, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
vgu
What does "vgu" at the end of the article's background section mean? Samnikal 09:10, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
successor
Was he really succeeded by Mongke Khan? I thought he was succeeded by Guyuk Khan. District Attorney 23:46, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
The Death of Occoday (Ögedei)
Plano Carpini: "For, at the time of our aboard in to the countrey, a certaine duke of Russia named Andreas (Andrej) was accused before duke Bathy for contieying the Tartar horses out of the land, and for selling them to others; and although it could not been prooued, yet was he put to death". Who was this Andrej, and who was his younger brother who was humaliated at the front of the Bathy and his colonels and capitains.
What about this [citation needed]: "For there was taken (to Karakorum for justice) a certane Consubine of the Khan which had poysoned Khan´s father (Occoday) to death to have a iustige of the Mongolols of their own. Moreouer, upon the foresaide Consubine, and many other of her confederants sentence of iudgement was pronounced, and they were put to death (1246) by the way of their own."
How this is linked to foresaide: "At the same time Ieroslaus, the great Duke of Soldal, which is a part of Russia, deceased. For being (as it were for honours sake) inuited to eate and drinke with the Khan of the Khans mother, and immediately after the banquet, returning vnto his lodge, he fel sicke, and within seven dayes, died. And after his death, his body was of strange blew colour, and it was commonly reported via our informanter, that the said Duke was poysoned to the ende that Tartars might free and totally possess his Dukedom".
Khan of the Khans: Ögedai 1229-1241 (poisoned)[citation needed]
Khan of the Khans: not mentioned 1241-1246 (widow of Ögedey?)[citation needed]
Khan of the Khans: Gujug 1246-1248 (poisoned?)
Khan of the Khans: not mentioned 1248-1251 (widow of Gujug?)
Khan of the Khans: Möngke 1251-1259
What is the link between these three and who poisoned Ögedei? From the text we found that word her means she not he. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.114.205.131 (talk) 05:28, August 30, 2007 (UTC)