Talk:12 Steps Saga

Name Change[edit]

Portnoy said on the Eddie Trunks show that the saga should be referred to as the 12 Steps Saga. I've made the appropriate changes (I think) I don't have a direct link to the recording, but information garnered by several forum users (including myself) who listened to the show is recorded here: http://dreamtheaterforums.org/forum/index.php?topic=23509.0 Perpetualchange (talk) 18:41, 23 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I am noting that when this page was made it was said that Repentance from Systematic Chaos was a ballad. Musically it dosnt really resmble a ballad like DT's own "Vacant" or certain Hair Metal Ballads, or something like Ozzy Ozbournes "Mama I'm Comin' Home" I dont feel it should say that so i edited it to simply say "Most of the alcholic's Anoynomous songs are among's DT's heaviest"

Is there a source for step 4 being Reflections of Reality (Revisited)? Because it should be just Reflections of Reality, and (Revisited) should be added in step 11. Dragosian 04:21, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's not clear if The Mirror is a precuel of the AA Saga, but mostly This Dying Soul has lots of references from that song, mostly lyrics, 'cause musically it has only references in structure, not in riffs.

The lyrics or themes repeated from the mirror are the following (excepting the obvious one in this Dying Soul, "Hello Mirror"):

3:45: Let's stare the problem right in the eye.... In This Dying Soul at 2:51 it says: "Now it's time to stare the problem right between the eyes...".
3:51: It's plagued me from coast to coast, racing the clock to please everyone, all but the one who matter the most. This Dying Soul at 4:31: "Spreading all your lies from coast to coast, then spitting on the ones that matter most"
In the mirror as a cause at 5:03: Lying until the end, living life so pretend.... In This Dying Soul as a consequence (2:41): "You've been blinded, living life a one-way cold existence...", and also at 4:29: "Living out a life of decadence..."

It's possible that The Mirror is a prequel as its thematic consists of what MP thinks is better to do and tries to live without hurting those he loves, but doing this he finds out that doing so, he results damaged. So that explains the inital lyrics of This Dying Soul: Hello Mirror, so glad to see you my friend, it's been a while..., it's like saying that from Awake to Train of Tought it has been a while in which he hasn't looked to himself, and the Stare the problem right between the eyes, you, long lost child... means that in that while he has gone lost and has to face his problem again, but more seriously.

Also the name for the step IV: Reflections of Reality (Revisited) is Revisited because it's a reference from The Mirror in timestamp 4:08 Reflections of Reality are slowly coming into view... and that's the first time it appears, so calling it Revisited makes The Mirror a more obvious prequel.

Musically there are a few structure quotations that aren't obvious, but result to be similar:

The Glass Prison Riff at 5:53 is a very heavy riff that needs a 7-string guitar to be played and the drums played with this riff are constantly changing, but the riff continues unchanged. This riff is found again on This Dying Soul at 6:31 and 6:56, again with the drums changing and shifting. It resembles the starting riff of The Mirror, which is is heavy and needs a 7-string guitar too and the drums change in the very same way with the riff unchanged.
The ending keyboard-guitar unison in This Dying Soul at 10:30 has a similar structure to the original ending of The Mirror (which has been cut in the album and put as the ending of Lie at timestamp 5:35). Both endings have a guitar solo and get faster as the song gets closer to the end, also the guitar starts playing high notes and ends playing other low ones and both songs end with a drum fill that suddenly stops the song.

I hope it helps in something 'cos I'm a very Dream Theater fan... did you note it? xD. Hfc2x 16:40, 16 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

someone has to organize this page :P. Hfc2x 16:45, 16 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

something I forgot ton mention about this suite was that MP stated (in his In Constant Motion instructional DVD / The Glass Prison Analysis chapter) that this "Suite" is actually not a suite... it is a song that has "been broken into several parts like pieces of a puzzle that can only be completed during the course of 5 or 6 albums later." and "every song kind of inter-connect with each other. one ends where the other begins". Also he explains that this song can be taken as a concept album, but spreaded across different albums. aaahh!! I almost forgot... have you ever listened to a live version of The Glass Prison? they usually connect it with This Dying Soul changing the final riff of The Glass Prison with the first on the other one. Another case that is completely rare is when they connect This Dying Soul to The Root of All Evil where they have to change the final chord of This Dying Soul with the one that opens The Root of All Evil (in the studio vesion is at timestamp 1:00), skipping completely the toms intro. I'll upload a file where it shows you how every song gets interconnected with each other (and showing where each section ends and the other begins). Hfc2x 00:02, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

here it is!! the audio file that I told: Steps_I_-_XI.ogg.

Hfc2x 05:04, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, glad I wasn't the only one who noticed this; will add information to the article.
(Also, anyole else notice that each song in the Suite somehow references the other songs before? Will add that also, but I'll probably add an OR stamp to it)
_~~N a N 10:49, 23 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned, or if it's significant at all, but the phrase 'Hello Mirror, so glad to see you my friend' not only makes a clear reference to 'The Mirror', but also matches the phrase 'Hello Victoria, so glad to see you my friend' found on Regression. (Track one of Metropolis Pt.2, Scenes from a Memory)
It also may be worth noting that this track, also, starts with 'Re', which is the universal starting 2 letters of the steps in this suite.
Papertowelz (talk) 16:56, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]