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Talk:42 cm Gamma howitzer/GA1

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GA Review

[edit]

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Reviewer: Usernameunique (talk · contribs) 23:37, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]


Infobox
  • The elevation and traverse don't appear to be anywhere in the article.
    • Deleted the reference to a "traverse", because I'm pretty sure such a thing is impossible with this behemoth, and added prose to "Design and production" to support the infobox. –♠Vami_IV†♠ 11:02, 27 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

  • Any reason Krupp AG is used here rather than simply Krupp in the infobox?
  • then used by the Imperial German Army in Belgium, France, Poland, and Serbia. — This is a pretty cursory summary of the article's longest section.
  • it was a Bettungsgeschütz (bedding gun) — This isn't in the body of the article.
  • only ten were built. — Is this anywhere in the body of the article?
Development and design
Ammunition
  • (Armour-piercing) ... (High-explosive) ... (Intermediate) — Any reason these are capitalized?
    • No;  Fixed now. I've also removed the German names for these shell types, too.
  • ensuring a gradient in their quality — What does this mean? Just that ammunition produced in earlier runs was noticeably better?
  • As a result, crews were required to disembark from the gun before firing. — Well that's a mark of confidence. Any word on how the trigger mechanism worked (i.e., how was it that they were able to fire it remotely)?
Service history
  • Any reason for the non-sequential numbering (1, 2, 4, 8, 9, 11)? Was it that other batteries (3, 5, 6, 7, 10) existed, but without this weapon?

World War I

  • Héronfontaine, Cerfontaine ... Fort de Wavre-Sainte-Catherine — Worth red links?
    • Absolutely worth them, but I couldn't find other-language wikis to link them to. I generally hate contributing to backlogs like WP:Requested Articles. –♠Vami_IV†♠ 10:42, 27 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • I get the disinclination, and certainly, red links aren't required for this review. I tend to think of them as more useful than anything, though—I see red links as a) indicating that the subject is notable even if it doesn't have an article, b) providing suggestions to others about articles to create, and c) providing reminders to me (for the red links I created) for what articles I might be interested in going back and creating. --Usernameunique (talk) 22:16, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • was sent to reduce the city — What does this mean?
    • To bomb it into submission. I've changed "reduce" to "capture".
  • because the artillery had no spotters — Does this mean that they were firing blind?
  • Any reason battery 11 isn't mentioned?
    • Romanych & Rupp mention the battery only once, when it was formed in 1916.
World War II
  • A single Gamma-Gerät survived World War I and its aftermath, disassembled and hidden in Krupp's Meppen facilities. — Any more information on this?
  • In general, this is a pretty cursory section. Is any further information about the one gun or its use known?
    • Not in my primary source, unfortunately. When I was writing this article, I could not find or access anything I thought credible for the article.
References
Further reading
  • Not a huge deal, but citation templates could be used for these. That would avoid the inconsistencies like these being "first name last name" rather than the "last name, first name" references above.
Drive-by comment

The issue of the article title I have identified above should be included in this GAN. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 00:31, 27 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Peacemaker67, copying your comment here, since it only appears on the talk page (not in the GAN page itself, which is transcluded). Also, given that you undoubtedly have a deeper knowledge about this area, any other suggestions you have for the article?
  • Sounds good, Vami_IV. Generally speaking, I'm a bit confused by the various names in the article. There's "kurze Marinekanone," which seems to be the official name. There's "Gamma-Gerät," which seems to be a nickname. And then there's Gamma Mörser, which appears in the title, the first sentence, the link to commons, and nowhere else. What's the relationship between the names? For that matter, what does "Gamma" mean? --Usernameunique (talk) 19:41, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Kurze Marinekanone" is indeed the official army designation for the gun. "Gamma-Gerät" is the name used by Romanych and Rupp; "Gamma" is the third character of the Greek alphabet and follows Beta, the second, and "Gerät" is "device". "Mörser" is "mortar" and the use of this word in the title and the Commons category are from before my time. I've removed the "Gamma Mörser" in the lead. –♠Vami_IV†♠ 06:07, 12 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks for the explanation, Vami_IV. I've just passed the article, and (once legobot runs in a few minutes) will move it to the new name. Could you please change the first line to reflect the new article title? (I would keep the German name somewhere, perhaps in parenthesis.) --Usernameunique (talk) 06:16, 12 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Looks like legobot is taking some time. I'll check again later. --Usernameunique (talk) 06:30, 12 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Mörser doesn't mean mortar in German military terminology, despite whatever dictionaries might say. It means howitzer. I'm not sure of the distinction between Mörser and Haubitze drawn by the Germans, but it existed. The German word for mortar is Granatwerfer (literally shell/grenade-thrower). One remaining issue that I see is that some of the German words in the text are not italicized. To facilitate text-to-audio readers, please format them as {{lang|de|XXXXX}}.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 12:01, 12 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sturmvogel 66, are you suggesting that 42 cm Gamma howitzer is the appropriate place for this? Also pinging Vami_IV and Peacemaker67. --Usernameunique (talk) 12:34, 12 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure what the most common name is since this is such an obscure weapon; I suppose using its official (code)name would be fine. I mostly wanted to correct you on the definition of Mörser. I created the article under its current name because that's what Gander and Chamberlain used.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 13:43, 12 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I think the overarching requirement is "use English" in this case, so Mörser needs to be translated because no-one not familiar with German will have any clue what the article is about, and will not search for this article using the word. Ian Hogg's German Artillery of World War Two glossary says Mörser=howitzer [1], so I reckon that's pretty definitive. The high-angle characteristics of these weapons also support a move to howitzer. So, my view is it should be at 42 cm Gamma howitzer. There are other articles titled Mörser which also need to be moved. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 23:36, 12 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Overall