Talk:AD Renting (cycling team)

Proposed merge of Fangio and Tulip Computers cycling teams into ADR cycling team

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

To merge the 3 articles (strong consensus), using Fangio (cycling team) as the title as the most long-standing term (contributors have different views, but none of the preferences seem strongly held, as WP:RECENTISM and WP:UNDUE conflict). Klbrain (talk) 08:38, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

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AD Renting is a continuation of the Fangio team. Fangio is notable per se, however, should live alongside ADR only if it was a SPINOFF or SPINOUT. Very far from this situation, both articles are actually stubs! Fangio consists almost entirely of lists. Note that this is a proposed merge, NOT an AfD! Please do not respond with "but X is notable." That this a given and 100% beside the point! The combined article can live under the name Fangio-ADR or AD Renting-Fangio. Or just AD Renting, as the rental company is probably not notable and has no article, or also the current name. It's all legitimate. The combination of team iterations is common practice, see for example Team Jumbo–Visma (men's team) or any other pro cycling team! gidonb (talk) 20:51, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

@Gidonb Is there proof that these are the same teams, are the riders mostly the same and is the management the same or is this all based on the statement in the article? Paulpat99 (talk) 21:16, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Sure! Thanks for asking, Paulpat99!!! See for example: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9]. I will add Tulip Computers (cycling team) to the discussion. Beside the sources, please note the very gradual transformation of this ONE team: from Fangio-ADR in 1986 to ADR-Fangio in 1987. We have cut that off very abruptly, not reflecting that these are all iterations of one and the same team. gidonb (talk) 21:48, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

The permanent name of this team should probably be Fangio–ADR–Tulip per source 3 but I am less focused on the name than on cleaning up this mess. gidonb (talk) 22:13, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

@Gidonb No the permanent name should be the last name of the team, just as Team Telekom is now called HTC–Highroad as that was the teams last name. So it should be all merged into Tulip Computers (cycling team) as this was the last edition of the team. I would like to see some other opinions on this matter. Try listing this on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cycling. I would agree to a merge to Tulip Computers (cycling team). Paulpat99 (talk) 23:15, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Paulpat99, that's wonderful! I am happy that you agree that we should merge these articles. I am 100% sure that existing cycling teams move to the next name, precisely as you suggest. For historic teams, however, this may clash with WP:RECENTISM and WP:UNDUE. As I said time and again, my goal is to clean up a huge cycle team mess. I am sure that others will want to have a say on what the name should be! gidonb (talk) 23:23, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Another approach could be to call it Fangio, as this was the most frequent head sponsor. Source 3 gives the best overview of this Belgian cycle team and its annual iterations. I am certain that a good name will be found! gidonb (talk) 03:06, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

And a note also to the direction of mergers. Whatever the final name would be, ADR was selected as the MERGE target because it is the oldest article of three covering exactly the same cycle team. In addition, ADR also has the most writeup! From ADR, the article can be moved to whatever will be agreed! gidonb (talk) 18:33, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

OK these other people never came. The current situation, however, is plainly wrong. This is ONE cycling team! Per consensus above I will merge all three teams under the current name and set into motion a new discussion for the name. 13:16, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

@Gidonb: did you list the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cycling as I suggested? Or ping anyone else? Paulpat99 (talk) 18:28, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

Is this discussion still alive? This was listed WP cycling just a few hours ago and I was surprised this has a few months. I would support the merge into Tulip Computers (cycling team) as it was the last designation of the team. WP:Recentism doesn't apply here. Rpo.castro (talk) 21:12, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

@Rpo.castro: Yes; merge discussion is still live, if slow-moving. Thanks for replying to my request on WP cycling; I am pushing to get this resolved as part of WP Merge, but am not a subject expert. Klbrain (talk) 06:29, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

All Drive Renting (long term leasing cars) had a capital of merely a million Euros (50M Belgian Franks) and in 1988 only a profit of 6.6M BFR, so ADR director François Lambert could have never paid his dues. He had a great vision, but was financially scamming the lot. He left the team in debt, with nothing in the bank. At the time teams had to pay to enter the Tour de France, De Cauwer naively payed a bunch of bills for LeMond's Tour and salaries, with the thought that he'd get it back. NOT! If you ignore a few bankruptcies, scandals, sponsor court fights, headaches, unpaid riders and ... this is a continues team. Tulip Computers (cycling team) would be the name, as usual the latest, maybe KOGA should be in it, as their second jersey sponsor. Emmarade (talk) 22:33, 14 June 2023 (UTC) Emmarade (talk) 22:33, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

References

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

  Y Merger complete. Klbrain (talk) 08:38, 15 July 2023 (UTC)