Talk:Blackburn/GA1

GA Review

Overall, a great job here; "Blackburn" is detailed and well-sourced. I apologize for that error with the MoS script; I try to catch all of those non-errors the computer attempts to "fix". I am nearly ready to promote the article to GA status, but I still have a few concerns:

General

• The following references are missing access dates: 1, 54, 55, 56, 63, 64
  • Fixed reference 1. Beejaypii (talk) 22:50, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
  • References 54, 55 and 56 are not online news references, just news references, hence no access dates. I have, however, reformatted them. Beejaypii (talk) 22:50, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
  • Need to have a closer look at 63 and 64 - not sure how they support the article text.

• Reference 79 seems to have the title and publisher data reversed.
  • Fixed. Beejaypii (talk) 22:50, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

• PLEASE NOTE: all the reference numbers above have now increased by one (except number 1) due to the addition of an extra reference in the "Roman era" subsection, earlier in the article. Beejaypii (talk) 00:17, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Lead

• Clarify: "Blackburn has experienced strained community relations in some areas."
• Clarify: "Blackburn and the town centre in particular has seen significant investment and redevelopment in the past 15 years."

Prehistory

• Merge: The urns mentioned in paragraph two seem to be the same urns mentioned above in paragraph one. If so, the two paragraphs should be merged as they each deal with the same topic.
• Awkward: "That prehistoric man was active in the area now covered by the town centre is suggested..."
  • Rewritten. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 17:47, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Roman occupation

• Replace: Odd section title. Perhaps better "Roman period"? "Occupation" implies a short-term military presence.
  • Changed section title to "Roman era". Beejaypii (talk) 23:53, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
• Clarify: Make clear that "Mancunium" was the old name for modern Manchester in the first sentence.
  • Reworked the whole paragraph. Used Beattie as further source to allow "Mamucium" instead of confusing the issue with apparent misnomer "Mancunium" (which also conflicted with Miller, who uses "Mamucium" in quote below the para in question). Beejaypii (talk) 23:53, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
• Delete: "The aforementioned" in the last paragraph.
  • Done. Beejaypii (talk) 23:53, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Middle Ages

• Clarify: Why 598AD? Is there a record of another church?
• Delete: "The town was certainly important during the Anglo-Saxon era." Editorial
• Clarify: "Blackburnshire Hundred" most readers won't understand what you're talking about here
• Clarify: "during the days of Edward the Confessor and William the Conqueror" always provide dates, if available.
• Clarify: "market cross"
• Clarify: "one half" I assume it means one half of the property/estate, but I'm not sure. What happened to the other half?
• Clarify: "there were several other medieval domiciles located nearby." Give examples of what kind of domiciles and source.

Industrial revolution and textiles

• Delete: Not sure if "textiles" is necessary here. The subsection headers here are dividing periods of time, not industries.
• Headers: The level 4 subtopic headings may not be necessary here. I don't think they do much to organize the information as the history of the textile industry can be told as one cohesive story.
  • Agreed. I've removed them. Beejaypii (talk) 10:25, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
• Source: "Flemish weavers settled in the area in the 14th century and helped to develop the industry."
  • Source already provided - footnote at the end of the paragraph. Beejaypii (talk) 00:08, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
• Paraphrase: "developed from a market town with less than 5,000 inhabitants with an expanding textile trade, to the weaving capital of the world with a population of over 130,000" Quotations are meant to illustrate a certain point. There are a few times when they are used instead to form part of the article text; this isn't necessary, especially when the information could be easily summarized instead. The only piece that you may want to quote from that passage is "weaving capital of the world", since that is quite a lofty claim and would definitely need to be sourced.
  • Addressed. Beejaypii (talk) 20:58, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
• Red link: "South Lancashire" you may want to fix that per WP:REDLINK
  • Fixed. Beejaypii (talk) 20:33, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
• Headers: Why are "Weavers'" and "Riots" capitalized?
  • Fixed. Beejaypii (talk) 18:22, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
• Paraphrase: Again, under "Lancashire Weavers' Riots" a quote is used when paraphrasing would be more than adequate.
  • Addressed. Beejaypii (talk) 18:22, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
• Run-on sentence: "As powerlooms increased their efficiency..." this needs to be broken up and phrased better
  • Addressed. Beejaypii (talk) 18:22, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
• Delete: "Blackburn played its part in these events."
  • Deleted. Beejaypii (talk) 18:22, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
• Clarify: Make it clear that the rioters were upset that the powered weaving mills caused the mass unemployment and were the cause of the riots. I know it seems obvious, but some people really do need it written out.
  • First half of the paragraph now largely re-phrased, hopefully it's more explanatory now. Beejaypii (talk) 18:22, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
• Clarify: "troops"? Like they sent in the military?
  • Yes, that's what they did. Beejaypii (talk) 00:08, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
• Headers: "Decline of the cotton industry" could be a new level 3 header since we've moved out of the industrial revolution.
  • Agreed and done. Beejaypii (talk) 17:58, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
• Awkward: "As early as 1890 it was recognized that Blackburn was over-dependent on the cotton industry"
  • Addressed. Beejaypii (talk) 21:13, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
• Paraphrase: "25% of the town's population were employed in textiles as opposed to the 60% employed in the industry up to the start of the Great Depression, twenty-two years earlier"
  • Paraphrased. Beejaypii (talk) 21:13, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
• Fix: "20 to 25&nbsplooms" in the third paragraph under "Decline of the cotton industry"
  • Fixed. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 17:50, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
• Fix: "By the end of that year there were 26 mills left operating in Blackburn" needs a period
  • Fixed. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 17:50, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Governance

• Clarify: "Despite generally good performance, overall user satisfaction levels with the council are below average and not improving." Provide the numbers, if available.
• Clarify: "The borough was awarded Beacon Council status and shares its best practice in education policy with other councils as part of the scheme." No idea what this means. Red link needs to be fixed as well.
• Source: Section "Parliamentary representation"
• Clarify: "MP" Wikilink for non-UK users who are unfamiliar with parliamentary system
  • Done. Though the unabbreviated phrase "Member of Parliament" was already both wikilinked and accompanied by its abbreviation "(MP)" in the first paragraph of the section. Beejaypii (talk) 08:51, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Coat of arms

• Wikify: This entire section needs to be wikified and linked so that users unfamiliar with heraldry can understand it. For example, I have no idea what "Argent a Fesse wavy Sable" and "three Bees volant proper on a Chief Vert a Bugle stringed Argent between two Fusils Or" are. To me, those few lines of text are just complete gibberish and an explanation would be helpful.

Politics

• Clarify: What's "UKPollingReport"? If it's just a polling organization, then it may not be necessary to mention it by name, but a date for the poll is needed.
• Delete: "Other political events" unnecessary header

Geography

• Source: First paragraph needs source.
• Clarify: "while Royal Blackburn Hospital is situated to the east of the town at a vantage point of 663 feet (202 m)." Why is this important for readers to know? Also need to fix redlink.

Economy

• Source: Information about Blackburn markets in the second paragraph
• Delink: "market"
  • Done. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 17:56, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
• Source: major employers
• Red link: "East Lancashire Hospitals NHS Trust"

Transport

• Expand: Do people commute to Manchester? Is there direct train service?
• Expand: What airport(s) service the town?
  • Done. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 12:59, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
• Awkward: "Blackburn is served by a newly redeveloped train station" better "The Blackburn railway station serves..."
  • Rewritten. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 18:05, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Landmarks

• Source: "An image of the cathedral is used behind BBC interviews held in Blackburn, which are filmed at BBC Radio Lancashire on Darwen Street, opposite the cathedral."
• Source: "the facility currently comprises four sections: the Darwen End, Riverside Stand (named as such because it stands practically on the banks of the River Darwen), Blackburn End, and Jack Walker Stand, which is named after Blackburn industrialist and club supporter, Jack Walker." Seems like it could be OR.
• Convert: "£35,000" and "£650,000" helpful to convert to modern equivalent
  • Done. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 18:26, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
• Source: "although it has since been re-clad and these figures may have altered slightly."
• Clarify: Instead of having three sources at the end of the paragraph, it's helpful to researchers and editors to have those sources come after the fact they're meant to cite, as opposed to jumbled at the end.
• Redlink: "A6078"
• Source: "Blackburn Arena, which houses an ice rink and is home to the Blackburn Hawks ice hockey team, opened in 1991."
• Source: Entire paragraph starting with "Blackburn Railway Station" needs sourcing (e.g. Gandhi visit, renovation date, brewery founding date)
• Clarify: "Stephen Charnock" Who is this guy? Famous? Local artist?
  • Done. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 13:20, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Community facilities

• Clarify: "lord of the manor" Blackburn was still a lord manor in the mid 1800s?
• Clarify: What is an "ICT training suite"?

Education

• Headers: You may want to make the parks part of the "landmarks" section and move the information about the library to "education". Seems unnecessary to have that many level 2 headers.
• Clarify: "The average GCE/VCE A/AS and Equivalent Point Score per Student is 649.7 compared with 716.7 nationally." This is gibberish to anybody not from the UK!
• Clarify: "It was originally independent but its status changed in 2005." So if it's not independent, what is it?
• Redlinks: Fix, obviously.
• Clarify: "There are plans being developed for a university campus in the town." A campus of what Univeristy? Or will a new one be set up?

Sports

• Source: "Blackburn has had a particular strong history of football. Rovers were not the town's only side in the 19th century; rivals included Blackburn Olympic F.C. (1883 winners of the FA Cup) and Blackburn Park Road F.C., amongst others."
• Numbers: Per WP:NUMBERS, "1991/1992" is supposed to be written as "1991-92".
  • Fixed. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 17:59, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
• Source: "The title of the unofficial fanzine of the town's football club, Blackburn Rovers, is 4,000 Holes."

Overall great start. I'll leave the article on hold for a week so that changes can be made before final GA review. Best, epicAdam (talk) 17:19, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Secondary review

Per conversation with nominating editor, I am failing Blackburn for now until the editor has more time to make changes to the article and then will renominate. -epicAdam (talk) 17:42, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Although it's sad that the article didn't quite meet GA, I think this was very constructive feedback, thanks. --Jza84 |  Talk  02:42, 18 July 2008 (UTC)