Talk:Bobov-45

The Psak Din

Now that a Psak Din was rendered; Wikipedia needs to be edited accordingly (has 90 days to do so according to the Psak); but seeing that confusion still remains, so as a public service for the English speaking public who cannot read the Hebrew decision, I will bring its highlights and its details as needed.

In the ruling the two parties are called "Side 1" and "Side 2". (For clarity here, side-1 is Bobov-45 and side-2 is Bobov-48; or side-1 is Rabbi Unger and side-2 is Rabbi Halberstam).

Bobov-45 came to Beth-Din to claim buildings (possessions) and Bobov-48 came to claim the name "Bobov" and for Beth-Din to deny it to Bobov-45.

Beth Din granted neither what they wanted. The Psak in a nutshell was, that Bobov-45 gets only 6.2 million dollars; and that both parties are Bobov; but Bobov-45 needs to add to its name "Bobov" a suffix or a prefix which distinguishes it from Bobov-48; by either calling itself (like it was known until now) with the suffix "45" or by adding a prefix to it.

The Psak is dry (deliberately dry and vague on the main points) without explaining on what its decision was based; so we can only go by what it does or does not say; and personal opinions on Wikipedia don't matter. Both sides need to adhere to the Psak and to Wikipedia policy.

For example the Psak does not "clearly" say who is a successor of whom, only who gets what. Not a word regarding a predecessor or a successor, who follows whom. It does not mention Rabbi Halberstam as "Rav Hatzuyir" on which the entire claim of Bobov-48 was; nor does it mention the word "inheritance" on which the entire claim of Bobov-45 was. Therefore one has no right to impose their view in any Wikipedia article but to stick to what it does or does not say in the ruling.

Here are the highlights (the important ones; will add others on request).

1) All the assets of "Bobov" in Brooklyn, New Jersey, Catskills and the Poconos... that were in existence at the death of the Bobover Rebbe Rabbi Naftali, are in the possession and control of side-2 (Bobov-48).

2) Side-2 (Bobov-48) needs to give Side-1 (Bobov-45) 6.2 million dollars.

3) The right to call himself "Rebbe of Bobov" (without any prefixes or suffixes) is exclusive to Rabbi Halberstam, and he can use this name as he likes with or without any additional names.

5) Rabbi Unger and Rabbi Rubin (the two son's-in-law of the last Bobover Rebbe Rabbi Naftali Halberstam) have a right to the name "Bobov"; but they need to add an identifier to it (a suffix of "45" or some prefix). It needs to be done in the following manner... [Quite complicated and questionable if as an "arbitration" it can stand in a court of law, since it violates "functus officio" (it's open-ended) and Freedom of speech. (You cannot force someone to say, or how to say, something they don't want to; and surely not to any unassociated party)].

6) The purpose of the following paragraphs is to arrive to a situation that to the observer there is a recognition between the two, between Bobov-48 and Bobov-45.

7) Rabbi Unger can call himself "Rebbe of Bobov-45" and Rabbi Rubin can call himself "Rabbi of Bobov-45".

8) If Rabbi Unger and Rabbi Rubin want to write on their letterhead that they are the son's in law of the previous Bobover Rebbe Rabbi Naftali Halberstam, they have a right to do so. [For Wikipedians this is a very important clause, because it says that Rabbi Unger and Rabbi Rubin cannot be cut out of the Bobov articles but have to be noted as the son's in law of the Bobover Rebbe Rabbi Naftali and/or the successors to their father-in law. (Of course they need to be called Rebbe/Rabbi of "Bobov-45" accordingly and not "Bobov" alone).

13) Side-1 (Bobov-45) has a right to call themselves (which includes and not limited to their synagogues and all their institutions) with the name "Bobov-45".

19) Side-1 (Bobov-45) has to call side-2 (Bobov-48) by the name "Bobov" without any other names.

22) Side-2 (Bobov-48) has to call side-1 (Bobov-45) by the name "Bobov-45" without any other names.

24) Side-2 (Bobov-48) has to do everything they can, not to cause that side-1 (Bobov-45) is called by any other names then "Bobov-45".

27) Side-2 (Bobov-48) has exclusive rights to the publishing of the Torah and tapes of the Bobover Rebbe Rabbi Shlome Halbertstam.

28) Side-1 (Bobov-45) has exclusive rights to the publishing of the Torah and tapes of the Bobover Rebbe Rabbi Naftali Halbertstam.

This is it in a nutshell. Afarsimon (talk) 20:40, 3 September 2014 (UTC)