Talk:Broderick (surname)

Etymology

What's with specifically removing the Norse origin of the name [1][2]? The information there is cited to a reliable reference. Note that there's a difference between the origin of a name and that of the family. Many native Irish clans have surnames derived from Gaelicised forms of Norse personal names. Look at the article Mac Amhlaoibh and Mac Amhalghaidh (Irish septs). Two of the septs mentioned derive their name from the Gaelic form of the Norse Óláfr, but both these clans are Irish in origin. The MacAuliffes are a branch of the MacCarthys and the MacAuleys are a branch of the Maguires. This article is so far just covering the name, which can be Irish and also Welsh.--Celtus (talk) 05:35, 22 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There's no evidence

That's fine, except that there is a genuine lack of evidence upon which to found the claim that the name is of Norse origin. The similarily between the two names is not sufficient. There is record of O Bruadairs being present in Ireland centuries before any Norse activity in the region. The claim that the name O Bruadair is of Norse origin has been criticised widely, as the name predates both Norman and Danish settlement. Bruadair was also the name of an ancient Irish prince of the Heremon line, also predating Norse settlement.

I accept that some Irish septs may be Irish in origin while still deriving their name from Nordic sources, but there is no evidence to suggest that Bruadair is once such example other than a similarity between the two names.

Ancestry.com is not a reliable source of historical information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.138.217.153 (talk) 05:55, 22 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

OK i get it. The thing about Wikipedia is that we are supposed to back up our information. We can't just add things which we 'know', or things we've 'discovered' on our own through research. That's called original research on Wikipedia, we aren't supposed to add that king of stuff. Can you find a reference that says the name Ó Bruadair was in Ireland before the Norse? Or that the Norse etymology is likely false? If the Norse thing has been criticized widely then it ought to be easy. The current reference isn't Ancestry.com - but Dictionary of American Family Names, Oxford University Press, ISBN 0-19-508137-4 - the book is just quoted on Ancestry.com. I wouldn't say the book is unreliable, so i think the Norse part should stay in for now. If you can find something reliable that counters it, add it.--Celtus (talk) 06:38, 22 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I found an Irish clan book on GoogleBooks which states the name has been 'on record in Ireland centuries before the Anglo-Norman invasions'. No mention of the fact the Norse pre-date the Normans in Ireland by centuries aswell. I'll add it into the article. Though i'm keeping the Norse thing - but i'll re-word it slightly.--Celtus (talk) 06:53, 22 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I found an article by Benjamin Hudson, describing what you were on about. I'll add the relevant stuff the article.--Celtus (talk) 07:07, 22 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]