Talk:Characters of The Keys to the Kingdom series

Suzy Blue

This article really should be merged with Characters of the Keys to the Kingdom series.

Seconded 213.122.106.93 11:05, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree. If Arthur Penhaligon has his own page, why should Suzy TB, the other main character, not have her own as well? From Suzy's page, it is clear that there is quite a lot to say about her. Surely this could not all be condensed into a small enough space to fit into this list of characters? And if we must Suzy on this page, should Arthur go on too? Ian F. 19:31, 17 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Will

I would like to point out that the Will is known as Dame Primus regardless of what part it is. I did change this so if anyone has any objections speak now.--sonoftheclayr 02:47, 17 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the Will is missing it's first few paragraphs? 1 and 2 I think? Is this worthy of a mention? 212.85.4.158 15:28, 13 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes i do belive it is....i speculate that it is lord sunday who witholds the first two paragraphs

Couldn't it be be that the architect has them?

The Architect would not have parts of the Will for 2 reasons. 1, She left the Will to be carried out when She left. 2, She did not split the will, the trustees did. Bio 18:49, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

They could be important because they could say something why the Architect isn't anymore in the house. Just an explanation. What do you think?

Yes it is true that the "First Part" of the will is comprised of paragraphs 3 to (eight i think). This is the part telling monday what to do, as the will actually reads "Into the trust of my good Monday, I commend the Lower House... until such time as my heir" or something of that sort. The first two paragraphs could be a forward of some type. Does the Will of the books follow some type of known legal format (the format of wills on Earth)? Lord Mandos 00:33, 26 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

'This is the first suspicious behavior displayed by Dame Primus, causing some readers to question where her alliances lie.' Surely thast incorrect as in Sir Thursday she displays some suspicious behaviour. For example refusing the call from Leaf, even though she knew Leaf was helping Arthur. Darkie

The Architect

The Architect should be in the cast of characters of this great series. I think there's a Masonic link/reference in the character, as Masonry refers to a Universal Architect.

I think the Architect article should be merged into this one as it doesn't really have enough information to be an article of it's own. It makes more sense for it to be on this page. Tartan 17:03, 24 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Arthur Penhaligon

I would prefer the main article on Arthur to remain seperate, as it allows more detail to be given on him. There's more than enough information about him, unlike the architect, and I'd like to see him have his own page.--ÑøζζłεΜαńFile:Homsar small.png 18:32, 4 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I proposed Arthur's merger but with the large amount of information I think it should remain separate --Aegwyn 13:14, 11 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Old One

There is no way the Old One should have his own article. It should be merged into this one. 213.122.106.93 11:12, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Speculation

I am going through the article and removing any unsource speculation. --kralahome 04:21, 4 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Done! --kralahome 20:50, 4 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Orginal Research

I removed this claim several times from the article, because I feel it is orignal research, it is merely someones theory and does not belong in Wikipedia.

"A possible explanation is that the Children, combining a Denizen's lifespan and human ability to adapt and learn, might gain power and knowledge enough to outstrip the Denizens someday if their memories weren't periodically erased. Dame Primus' comment in "Drowned Wednesday" that the Raised Rats are dangerous because their resistance to washing between the ears allows them to gather dangerous amounts of knowledge could support this theory. Another possibility is that washing between the ears is a humane enterprise to prevent the Children from suffering mental disorders due to experiencing a lifespan that the human mind isn't ready for."

Please someone tell me if I am out of line. --kralahome 01:05, 18 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, there is no evidence proving this, so it should not be included.

Can't you put it under speculations ?

No, because Wikipedia very specificly does not like speculation. If you can get a reputable source, such as a book review or magazine, speculating this, then it will be allowable. But while there is not source, there is no paragraph. --kralahome 22:44, 11 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Did anyone other than me notice that Piper's Children are not allowed to drink alcohol for unknown reasons (Sir Thursday)? Perhaps this can reverse the washing between the ears. Bio 19:02, 12 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Lady Friday's Sin

Many people have been adding Lust as Lady Friday's sin. Could we please not do that, as there has been no confirmation of that by the author. It is merely speculation, based on the end of the latest book where it is said she is beautiful. This does not make her lustful, it could just as easily be pride/vanity. So please stop putting that up there as it is unconfirmed. Thank you. --kralahome 01:33, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Just a little correction, although what you say is correct, vanity is not one of the seven deadly sins (but pride is).

I agree that speculation should not be included. However, lust does make sense for Lady Friday. Most logically, Lord Sunday would have Pride, since he is the most important in the house. Superior Saturday would then have Greed, since she is so close to the top but not quite there. The only missing sin is Lust. Just a thought. Bio 19:03, 12 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You could also say that Lord Sunday's is lust or greed because he was always seeking out the most power, that Superior Saturday's is pride because he does the most meddling in the house and that makes him think too highly of himself. Do you see how this is a trap that is so easy to fall into? --kralahome 21:57, 12 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

We already know that Grim Tuesday's was Greed, and Saturday is a woman, but I do see your point. Bio 18:47, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but look at this: Friday: Lust, becouse she's very beautyful. Saturday: Envy, she's very jalous becous she doesn't has the large power of sunday. Note: She's is the largest enemy of Arthur, her dusk attacks him. So she's also jalous at Arthur becous he gets the power in the house. Sunday:Pride, he has the most powerfull Key and is the most important Denizen, he's a son of the Architect. He even banished his brother, the Piper. Do you read me?

I already covered your info in my last edit. Bio 18:22, 18 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Equally likely, Saturday's vice is Pride and Sunday's is Envy -- of the Architect Herself (though I agree Lust is likely to be Friday, from a dramatic point of view-- either Pride or Envy would make a stronger finish to the series). Since speculation is to be avoided, all that could probably be noted is that there are seven classical virtues and sins, and the remaining ones not already accounted for could be listed, just as the remaining areas of the House are listed after each of the last two Morrow Days. We do have confirmation from publisher websites that seven virtues and sins are involved.

Potential similarities to the Trinity (Architect/Creator, Will/Holy Spirit, Heir/Son) might also be noted, particularly if Arthur appears to die during Lady Friday, but this would again be speculative at this point. Edalton 20:55, 25 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

One of the publisher's websites has speculated that the fifth key is a mirror, as Arthur appears to be holding one on the Allen and Unwin cover. This would support the vanity idea, but that is not possible as vanity is not a sin. Also, an excerpt from the book on the Allen and Unwin website mentions that Friday has a mirror that can transport beings through any reflective surface in the house as long as Friday has been there before. Lord Mandos 00:38, 26 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Tuesday's Times

When I read Grim tuesday I thought it was obvious that Japeth and Mathias were to become the new Dusk and Noon and both of them atteding the meeting at the beginning of Sir Thursday seemed to confirm that in my mind.--SurrealWarrior 22:49, 18 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Athur never actually makes them those positions. He just tells Dame Primus to find good jobs for them. Bio 19:56, 21 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Bathroom Attendants

Where did this info on there being 12 attendants come from? I do not remember this info in any of the books thus far. Bio 20:19, 28 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There is no evidence in the book as to there being a specific number of Bathroom Attendants. However, I doubt there are as small a number as 12, as three seem to go to do washing between the ears together, and it would take many more than this to do the whole House. Lord Mandos 00:41, 26 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Saturday's Noon and Dusk in Mister Monday

I am not exactly sure, but is it mentioned somewhere that the two "higher authorities" in the prologue of Mister Monday are Superior Saturday's Noon and dusk? It seems pretty obvious to me, as their description is pretty similar, and they wield fancy canes with silver knobs. They also serve a higher authority which has to live far up, so Saturday is reasonable. Thoughts?