Talk:Computerize

Discuss before deleting links

The links that have been added to this page are based on what I discover is meant when actually reading the articles that link to this pages. The links are there to help any editors who wish to join in the process. One of the links removed embedded systems was the primary link to the term before the disambiguation page. MOSDAB is just a guide, not rules to be applied rigidly. Please discuss on the talk page before removing links again in accordance with WP:BRD. Oicumayberight (talk) 05:31, 3 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The removed definitions include "* Equipping with an embedded computer system", "** Inputting information into computers or embedded systems in a digital data format", "* Creating a computer software-based solution for executing an algorithm". Software-based isn't even a page, it's a redirect link to a section of algorithm. This is clearly out of the normal use and format of a disambig page. The removed ones are almost free-association topics that generally relate to the topic. It's telling that none of those articles with removed entries even contain the word "computerize" (with one exception in embedded computer, and that doesn't explain or focus on it, just uses it offhandedly) (also, going in and adding it to those articles doesn't somehow cure this problem either... it's telling that those topics are not sufficiently related). I question the wisdom of this dab page at all, but rather than nominate it for deletion, I removed the most egregious entries.

I realize you have some issues with the disambig policies in general ([1]), but they exist for a reason and to provide clarity. Loosely related subjects clutter the disambiguation space. There's a fundamental difference between disambiguating a word that could cover two different subjects, and creating a subject index. This page, and these entries are the latter. There was no competing concept for what "computerize" meant before this page was created, and the fact that digital data and data (computing) and binary code are all related to computerizing data does not mean they are competing for the same word to link to their respective topics. Shadowjams (talk) 20:31, 3 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

First, the purpose of disambiguation pages is to help both users and editors find the most accurate and thorough articles that the term could mean. MOS DAB only serves to make browsing disambiguation pages easier by removing useless links from those disambiguation pages. In a DAB page that had less than 10 links, removing half or more links does more to defeat the purpose of the disambiguation page than it does to make browsing it any easier. Browsing 3 to 5 Links isn't much easier than browsing 6 to 10 links.

As for the individual links on the page, Embedded computer system was the most important link because it was where most of the links to computerized were pointing before this DAB page was created. But there are other uses of "computerize," "computerized," "computerization," "computerise," "computerised," and "computerisation" that were being misdirected to "Embedded computer system" or oversimplified by "Embedded computer system". Every link that was added was to this disambiguation page was found in the process of disambiguating the above terms in more accurate and more specific articles than "Embedded computer system". You aren't going to find those terms in the articles they link to because the wikipedia community is not in the habit of finding sources just to note synonyms. Wikipedia is not a thesaurus. Wikipedia isn't even in the habit of making sure that the subjects of redirects are being discussed in the article they redirect to. So how else do you think these problems are going to be solved if not via a disambiguation page? They won't. Most likely, you will get frustrated users, who don't know where to look next when the link is to an inaccurate or oversimplified article, bashing the accuracy of wikipedia.

There are multiple problems that aren't being dealt with regarding adjectives. Adjectives are ambiguous by nature, so there will be multiple contexts in which they are used. Adjectives don't make for good article titles so people will most likely redirect them to an oversimplified version of what they could possibly mean. MOS DAB doesn't even address adjectives in their examples of when to disambiguate. So you can keep deleting links if you want, and even nominate this DAB page for deletion, but that won't solve this problem which is making wikipedia lose credibility for linking to inaccurate or oversimplified articles. Oicumayberight (talk) 21:24, 3 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I also question the wisdom of this DAB page. Computerize has a very small number of meanings, all of them very related, specially for the English language term. It's a verb, by the way, so I have no idea why the talk about adjectives.

I think we would be better served by converting this to a page explaining computerize (as it relates to embedded systems/processors/mechanical computers, equipping with computers, etc) and with links to each page as needed. Or even better, deleting it as it is almost worthless.

Aisteco (talk) 01:01, 4 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As it has been linked, "computerized" is more often used than "computerize" and more often than not used as an attributive verb, an adjective in effect. Oicumayberight (talk) 18:14, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I stand corrected on the grammar terms. I was thinking along the lines of the adjective "computerizable." Things are computerizable in various ways. The various ways and degrees things can be computerized are not all covered by embedded systems. See definitions. Sometimes they are talking just software. Sometimes they are talking general purpose computers. Sometimes they are talking data formats. You can see the various uses in my edit history. And verbs aren't covered well in MOS DAB either. What happens to adjectives and verbs is they get attached to nouns to change the essence of the noun. That's why the verbs and adjectives are getting linked separately and are being misdirected. The wikipedia editors are obviously having difficulty finding the most accurate articles to link the nouns and verbs too. It's obvious when you see something to the effect of "computerized information" that they aren't talking about embedded systems. Oicumayberight (talk) 06:25, 5 August 2013 (UTC).[reply]

Here's the links in my edit history that were misdirected to embedded systems: [2][3][4][5][6][7][8] Oicumayberight (talk) 06:59, 5 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]