Talk:Coon hunting/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Aircorn (talk · contribs) 01:40, 16 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hi White Arabian Filly. Feel free to discuss any comments I make below.

Review

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

Interesting topic.

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
Some very large paragraphs. Would you consider maybe dividing some of them up (in particular the first one in practice). They are a little exhausting to read. Some specific comments below.

Divided them in the seemingly logical places. White Arabian Filly ^Neigh 22:03, 18 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Divided them further.Continentaleurope (talk) 08:31, 20 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):
Nothing of noet on copyvio detector[1]. Quality of sources look fine for an article like this. Difficult to spot check the books as there are no page numbers given. Is ref 22 supposed to be all caps? As well as page numbers some details are missing from quite a few references. This includes web site names (e.g ref 10) book publishers and ISBNs. Some of the web links don't really help much. For example on reference 37 I could not find the information I was looking for. You don't need to provide all the details, but the references must be reasonable easy to identify (even if they are offline). For newspapers the headline and publishing date is essential and ideally if possible the page number should be provided. Web links are just convenience links and articles should be future proofed so that if the link becomes dead a person should still have enough information to find the source. I am having quite a bit of difficulty spot checking your sources at the moment and think this needs to be addressed before I pass this review.

I'm working on filling out the refs. I'll do as many as possible today, but may have to do more tomorrow if I don't get done.

Filled to the full all refs with isbn, issn, oclc. Also archived sources which allow you to. One source appears dead. The note and one statement in the main article are unsourced.Continentaleurope (talk) 08:31, 20 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): b (focused):
While I am not familiar with coon hunting I have a bit of knowledge on possum hunting so have based some of this section on that. I was curious about what happened outside America (I saw in the Racoon article it mentions Germany). The articles sole focus is on the use of dogs, but I would think their would be hunting without them.[2][3] This mainly focuses on hunting as a sport. What about as population, disease (do they carry disease) and pest (are they seen as pests) control? Would be interested in the market for racoon pelts. Do most hunters sell what they get, do they keep trophies or are the carcasses discarded? If non of this is significant let me know.

I couldn't find anything significant about coon hunting outside the US. I'm kind of doubtful it exists, primarily because of the huge fight Britain has had for the past 12-15 years with people trying to stop fox hunting--it got outlawed for a while around 2004. I think Germany stopped fox hunting a while before that. I'll have to look into the hunting without dogs. I think you can call them like turkeys, but 95% or more of coon hunting is with dogs. As for disease, they carry rabies (I saw one with it actually a long time ago) and are seen as pests in rural places. They'll get into a cornfield and pull off an ear, take a bite out, throw it down, pick another...part of the reason why a lot of farmers hunt or let others hunt on their land. As far as I know there's very little pelt market nowdays. Years ago people would almost always sell them unless they kept a big one as a trophy or had it stuffed. In the pre-dog food days, people used to cook the meat for the dogs if they didn't eat it themselves.

The article covers enough aspects for a GA, but would not be enough for an FAC.Continentaleurope (talk) 08:31, 20 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias:
Are there any protests, criticism of the sport. It mentions that they were protected once. I am sure some animal groups have said something against hunting.

Not really protected, it's more like the conservation people went around to the coon hunting clubs and taught them not to chop down den trees or kill sows with babies. I added a little bit more about that. People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals and the Humane Society of the United States oppose all hunting, but so far as I can tell they focus protests and that kind of thing on deer hunting. We could just note that they oppose it basically unless people are starving to death. (And I don't think they really like it then.) White Arabian Filly ^Neigh 22:02, 19 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Unless it is specific to coon hunting I don't think it is necessary. Up to you, it won't effect this assessment either way. AIRcorn (talk) 09:00, 20 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It is stable.
No edit wars, etc.:
Only really edited by one editor so far.

I made some edits recently, however reading content is more or less the same.Continentaleurope (talk) 08:31, 20 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No problem. I left a note at White Arabian Filly's talk page asking her to let me know when this article is ready for a second look. Would like to give her a chance to check your changes first before I do. AIRcorn (talk) 09:00, 20 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Could potentially throw some wikilinks in the captions (dog breeds maybe if they have articles). Image licensing looks fine. All images are appropriate and match their assigned sections (although it would be nice to have a picture of racoons and dogs as a lead image as the current one could be a dog treeing anything).

I'd like to have a picture like that too, but I can't find one. Oh well, maybe somebody will upload one at some point. White Arabian Filly ^Neigh 22:02, 19 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I included an infobox and moved photos where best appropriate to illustrate subject discussed next to it.Continentaleurope (talk) 08:31, 20 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Overall:
Pass/Fail:
My most pressing concern is the references. Everything else is a pass or close to one.

OK, I am fine with all changes. The note is one of those "the sky is blue" things but if it's a problem I can remove/put on the talk page because that'll be a question I think quite a few people will ask. I considered looking up the game laws for every state, but given that at least half the 50 states (maybe all but Hawaii and Alaska--not sure they have coons there?) will have such laws, and they'll change yearly, it seemed like a huge task and a never-ending one. White Arabian Filly ^Neigh 21:46, 20 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Prose comments

The breeds vary somewhat in size, though color is the largest obvious difference; all but the Plott Hound descend from the English Coonhound. Not sure how the two parts of this sentence tie together. They read like two seperate statements.
- I split it into two sentences. The bloodlines are pretty similar and there's some forums or stuff saying all coonhounds are one breed.
A major difference in hunting ability is whether a dog is hot-nosed, meaning it will skip an older scent to follow a fresher one, or cold-nosed, meaning it will follow an older scent. Feel this needs some more clarification. Ability to me says one is better than the other, but I am not sure that is what is meant here. It more seems to be saying that they are just different
- I'll try to come up with a better word there--maybe "performance". Years ago it wasn't a big deal whether the dog chased the coon over three counties in the course of one hunt, but because of development the hot-nosed dogs have become more desirable. White Arabian Filly ^Neigh 21:40, 18 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The dog is thus said to be treeing, and the raccoon is considered treed. I feel this sentence would be better moved earlier. When I got to tree bark I was quite confused (especially as I thought tree bark meant the bark of the tree when I first read it) and it wasn't until I got further along that I fully understood. An earlier explanation I think will benefit the article
- Putting in the lead to give readers a heads-up.
The largest and most prestigious annual hunts, also called field trials, include the Autumn Oaks and Leafy Oaks, besides the Coonhunting World Championship This is a little confusing. Are the Autumn Oaks and Leafy Oaks a single event or two events and what is meant by "besides".
- Can change to something like, "The largest and most prestigious annual hunts, also called field trials, include the Coonhunting World Championship, Autumn Oaks, and Leafy Oaks." They're two different things, though the names are confusing.
  - Perfect. AIRcorn (talk) 00:04, 19 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
By 1885 a raccoon pelt sold for approximately 25 cents, a fair price for the time. A fair price compared to what? Other furs? The cost associated with hunting them?
- Other furs and things like food items or other products. I can check the source and see if it gives a comparison.
During the 1950s, staged nite hunts were created, and by the 1970s had become popular, with some hunts involving over one thousand dogs. Little awkward with the psuedo-parenthetical commas. Does the "and by the 1970s had become popular" need to be enclosed with commas?
- Will toss commas.

Source check

[4] good

Will finish this when references are easier to search

Random spot check

Reference 17 - This method has led to a mule show competition called coon jumping good
Reference 19 - Not all coon hunting is in the wild, as many modern hunters enter their dogs in competition hunts, good
Reference 40 - in addition to bringing over $1 million in sales and ultimately becoming a platinum record for MCA Records. link doesn't work.
Reference 8 - Some hunters also use Louisiana Catahoula Leopard Dogs, although this breed is not a hound but a cur. Only got snippet view but found mentions to cur in other pages.
Reference 10 - The dog's voice may change timbre depending on how fresh or "hot" a scent is. Can't view, but assuming good faith
Spot checks generally good. One link that is now different, but happy to assume good faith that it used to support the statement.

Final comments

Happy to pass this as is. Congratulations White Arabian Filly and helpers. AIRcorn (talk) 06:09, 21 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Continentaleurope (talk) 00:56, 22 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]