Talk:Franco-Algerian war (1609–1628)

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Military history: European / French / Middle East

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Source material

I have read through the main source for the article by Grammont. Some of the elements do not match the wiki article. Ultimately, the result Grammont spells out is that there was a peace treaty that ended the hostilities and continued raids in exchange for the cannons. The source starts by discussing how until 1609 France did not suffer the same raids as Spain etc due to the alliance between Francois I and Mehment, the Ottomanns being the overlords of Algiers prevented raiding of corsairs on France to a great extent. The corsairs would then look for any probable casus belli. The article also explicitly states that Dansa did not convert to Islam and returned to Marseilles to his family, he had reconcilled the court of France by returning captured priests that he had captured. On this return, he had the two bronze cannons who he gave to the Duke of Guise. FR1914 (talk) 12:09, 3 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

he war was also costly for Algiers and unpopular with the Ottoman Sultan who wished to bring his puppet in line is what you added to the article. Where on page 9 of that source does it say that? M.Bitton (talk) 13:26, 3 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The source material does not completely match material the article. The document is 48 pages, it mentions that they essentially lost control of the 'Reiss'/Corsair captains.

It concludes with the peace terms, France would return the two cannons and pay Algiers 30,000 Livres for the ending of raiding of commerce, it does not state a victor or a loser this is on pages 46-48.

The document explictly states, that Dansa did not convert to Islam and infact it played some role in why he returned to Marseille as well as to be runited with his family, this led to the events to war regarding the cannons.

Page 9. discusses how the Algerians were angered by the cannons not being returned and that Dansa gave them to the Duc of Guise and how the Algerians used it as a casus beli, this is after the previous pages explaining why France wasn't raided as much due to the previous of alliances, it also begins to mention that there was some rif between Algiers and Istanbul esentially.

It states that France did not take the threat seriously as it was a nation that they had many treaties with and were more pre-occupied with the death of Henri IV. Hostilies commenced quickly and considerable number of ships were taken.

However page 11 for example talks about the hardships of the war for Algiers the famine in 1612 and an attack in 1610 which burned down Mitidja etc. Also the difficulty of attacking Marseilles and the growing repuation of the commander of Marseilles Vinciguerra in Africa.

Ultimately because of the second point, it should be result - Peace Treaty then could put the points below of what this encompassed.

With certain elements of the main article revised.

Ultimately, I won't edit the main article again without consensus, so I'll leave it to you to review the whole piece of source material too before any action is taken to avoid disagreement and chop-changing/reverting. FR1914 (talk) 14:28, 3 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Just so that we're clear: the "wished to bring his puppet in line" that you attributed to a source that says no such thing is concerning.

The Algerian declared war for one reason: they wanted France to return the cannons that had been stolen by Danser. Not only was that objective achieved, but France paid them on top of it. If that's not an Algerian victory, I don't know what is.

Of course Danser converted to Islam (he wouldn't have been allowed to join the Algerian corsairs otherwise). I haven't checked what the old source that you used says about him (you didn't give a page number), but here's a modern source that confirms it.^[1]

The other points that you raised are irrelevant to the fact that the Algerians achieved their objective (their cannons were returned to them). There would have been no peace and no peace treaty, i.e., no return to how things were before the war, if France didn't comply. M.Bitton (talk) 08:45, 4 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Alan G. Jamieson (2013). Lords of the Sea A History of the Barbary Corsairs. Reaktion Books. p. 87. ISBN 978-1-86189-946-0.

[Jamieson-1] Alan G. Jamieson (2013). Lords of the Sea A History of the Barbary Corsairs. Reaktion Books. p. 87. ISBN 978-1-86189-946-0.

[1]