Talk:Genesis 1970–1975

Pre-release speculation

The topics below contained speculation and debate about the track listing of this box set. Now that the box set has been released, these comments are basically obsolete, since the track list is no longer a mystery.

Request for explanations of deletions

If anyone decides to remove information from this entry, it would be nice to get an explanation. This is a long-awaited title, and everything included in the "long" edit is direct from the Genesis fan community. Saying "each album WILL include a corresponding DVD including interviews, photo galleries..." is as much speculation as the bit about the Jackson tape, which has been confirmed as having been purchased by the band, and whether it actually makes it to the set or not, it is apparently the band's intention to include it if possible.

One reason Wikipedia can cover so many subjects is because it doesn't rely on a central committee of editors, who cannot possibly be well-versed in every subject. That being the case, would those who don't know what is being planned for this set kindly refrain from removing information simply because they didn't know about it. At the very least, please explain why certain edits are being made rather than arbitrarily hacking the entry to pieces.

Thank You.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.236.218.36 (talk • contribs) 10 December 2007 72.236.218.36

Source

Where´s the source for this tracklist?Fco. (talk) 19:35, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

BBC Nightride/Midnight Special... wishful thinking?

I'll second the request for a source or confirmation of the tracklist... specifically the DVD Visual Extras. The info was just added yesterday, and I've not seen the BBC material or Midnight Special listed as being included from any other source except for wishful thinking in a fan forum. It'd be great to have these, but don't tease the fans by presenting "hope so, maybe so" as fact. It's already an epidemic here. 72.236.218.36 (talk) 17:49, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

BBC sessions, Midnight Special 1973 and the Lamb Slides

Hi there!

(sorry for my English, it's not my first language)

Well, this has been a hot discussion on forums, both Genesis and general music. There's a very informative one on the Steve Hoffman site. Fans talk about BBC sessions and other material. From the rumored BBC material, well, only a few songs have been released so far. Shepherd, Padicy & Let Us Make Love (1970), and Stagnation (1971) were included on the 1967-1975 (aka the Gabriel era) boxset in 1998. According the the hoffman site, Genesis performed 5 BBC sessions from 1970 to 1972, and THEY WERE intended for an official release around the same time when the Archives 67-75 was being produced. The project was abandoned when Tony Banks refused permission. It is said that was because of lack of a quality source of "sounds of the 70s" (John Peel sessions January 1972). I think it's not coincidence that BBC broadcasted this session FOR THE VERY FIRST TIME in March 2008, with a pristine sound quality, and including 2 rare tracks previously unavailable on bootlegs: Fountain Of Salmacis and a mix 2 of Harold The Barrel. It seems is this session that will appear on the Nursery Cryme DVD, as well with a version of Musical Box (which I don't know, because there're 2, an early one from 1971 and another one from Paris Studios 1972).

The material from Night Ride 1970 is included both on the Trespasss DVD and the 1970-1975 extras (the same 3 songs featured on Archives 1967-75). I don't know whether the Stagnation version will be the early one from 1970 (unreleased) or the 1971 one (previously released).

All the material from Foxtrot DVD is from 1972, and they performed the 3 songs listed on this site.

The Midnight Special 1973 footage has circulated among collectors in an almost unwatchable quality. Tape seems to be a low gen used VHS, and it's incomplete. Some Genesis fans have seen a perfect quality tape, sourced probably from the NBC master tapes.

Finally, there's even more material to be included, and not listed yet on this site, like the famous "Lamb Slides", altogheter with high quality audience footage from Bern 1975.

It's quite possible that all the inclusion of this priceless material will be the reason for the endless delays. This Gabriel era box was originally intended for September/October 2007 Anyway, I'm really happy with the inclusion of all this exceptional material. 10 years waiting have been too much for the BBC sessions and another Gabriel era boxset. This will easily be the best ever box set —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thrill Is Gone (talk • contribs) 16:24, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the information, but the fact that the material was recorded and intended for the first Archives boxed set doesn't mean it was filmed, and it certainly doesn't guarantee that we'll get either audio or video of it. Being that the DVD Visual Extras are usually just that... VISUAL extras, if only audio tracks exist of these sessions they would be on the Extra Tracks DVD instead of the ones for the individual albums. You use terms like "is included", but what you're posting is only speculation. The three tracks that appeared on Archive 1 do seem to be repeated on the Extra Tracks DVD, but until someone who has a review copy of this set (if there will even be any distributed in advance of its release) confirms the tracklist shown in the article, we really don't know what will be included and what won't. Unlike the first set, there doesn't seem to be an official "mini-site" for this release, nor has there been any official announcement from the record companies. With regard to your comment about the "Lamb" slides and Bern footage, this is complete and utter speculation. Yes, this material exists, but LOTS of other stuff relating to these albums is still out there... it doesn't mean it will be included on the set.

To be sure, this will be a feast for fans of the Gabriel era, but we shouldn't be counting our chickens before they hatch. It can only lead to disappointment. 72.236.218.36 (talk) 23:47, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Talk, are you a Genesis fan or not?

First, I have some contacts and friends inside the Genesis camp. Second, I just found the info here on wikipedia, I didn't start on invent anything. Third, of course everyone knows the BBC material wasn't filmed. BBC sessions were a few songs (usually 4) performed as though live but recorded in studio conditions, then mixed the same day without time for additional overdubbing or effects. This is what makes them so priceless: they have the immediacy and integrity of a live performance but with the sound quality usually associated with studio releases.

From the Nigh Ride (1970) Dusk has been lost forever, and the Paris Studio 1972 session it seems not to be included on this box. There's also more BBC material, this time on video, like Roundhouse 1970 (with Anthony Phillips) and BBC Disco 2 (performing The Knife). No signs of inclusion on this boxset, sadly.

The story of the Lamb slides involves Jeffrey Shaw and Theo Botschuijver, and the universally acclaimed Canadian tribute band "The Musical Box". They were used again for the Musical Box "Lamb Tour", with permission of the band including Peter Gabriel. After the tour, the slides were packed in the right sequence, then digitalized and synched with music ... to be included on this boxset, believe it or not. Go to the Genesis "ning" site for more info.

Now, do you want this boxset or not?. Stop moaning and go for it, it's the greatest boxset ever my friend!

It's no secret that pre-orders have increased enormously since the leaks of this mind-blowing new contents —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thrill Is Gone (talk • contribs) 13:37, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

First off, my name is not "Talk"... if you knew anything about Wikipedia, you'd know that (talk) is a link to the talk page for this IP address, which I'd prefer nobody uses since I'm at work. Secondly, the official announcement has been made, and neither the Bern footage you mentioned NOR the BBC Sessions material that was previously listed in the article will be appearing on the set. Again, even though additional material exists, only material that WILL be on the boxed set should be discussed here. I'm sure any fans who pre-ordered the set based on your misinformation and the vandalism of the article by others will be rather upset when they receive their set. Finally, I should clarify that I didn't accuse you of posting the false information, but you seemed to be confirming that it would be included, which we have seen is completely false. Thankfully someone has removed the erroneous portions of the article. YES I am a Genesis fan, YES I want this boxed set, and YES I know how to sign my posts... you should try it sometime. 72.236.218.36 (talk) 20:56, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

STOP the wishful thinking...

...it's NOT what Wikipedia is about. If you want to postulate on what MAY be released in the future or what you would LIKE to have, keep it on the forums or start your own website... DO NOT vandalize Wikipedia articles.

I don't know exactly what the protocol is, but unless someone provides sources for the following recently-added information within the next few days, I'm going to revert the edits:

live boxed sets (beginning of article)

BBC Sessions (added at end of "bonus discs" section)

24.254.9.5 (talk) 06:32, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Name of the painter: __ Jackson?

The final four new tracks were recorded by Genesis for a BBC documentary about a painter named Jackson. Does anyone know for sure what his full name was?

The Richard Macphail interview (see the footnotes) says his name might be Peter Jackson. Most references on the web refer to either "Michael Jackson" or "Mick Jackson". There are no British painters with Wikipedia articles under any of those three names.

Okay, Hobbit-philes, it's definitely NOT Peter Jackson. Reliable sources (though I don't have any handy at the moment) say it's Mick Jackson. Recent references say Michael Jackson, which is most likely his given name, but I think we should stick with Mick to avoid confusion. For the record, "Mick" and "Mickey" can both be short for Michael. In fact, Mick Jagger's given name was Michael.

(In the U.K., is "Mick" always short for "Michael"? Here in the U.S.A. this nickname is extremely rare, and could be "Mickey".) — Lawrence King ^(talk) 05:02, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

If he was British, what we do here in the States is irrelevant. You do realize the USA was largely settled by English colonists, right??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by MaxVolume (talk • contribs) 19:44, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Of course it's not revelant to his name. I was explaining why I was asking the question. If "Mick" in England always means Michael, then it might be permissible for us to say "Michael" on this page even though some sources say Mick and others say Michael. If, OTOH, these are two different names, then we can't assert as a simple fact that his name is Michael. And, in case any British readers thought this was a dumb question, I commented that in America we don't always do it this way. (On an unrelated note, approximately sixteen of the fifty states were largely settled by English colonists; I'm from California, which is not one of those.) — Lawrence King ^(talk) 01:56, 24 November 2008 (UTC)