Talk:Jainism and Hinduism

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Neutrality[edit]

This article is inclined towards Hinduism and shows Jainism as a result of revolt in ancient beliefs of Hinduism. However, even scholars have agreed now that both are unique and have coexisted in ancient times. The text should be redrafted to show the point of difference and not that Jains were those who opposed the Hindu beliefs and Vedas. Jains could argue that Hinduism was founded by those opposing the Jinvani. Classic story regarding that argument is the story of Marichi which is found in both texts.

Therefore, this being endless argument needs specific attention. This article should focus on the differences and similarities in beliefs and practices only. It should not use words like x dont believe in y or opposed y. Instead x believes a while y says b -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · count) 07:31, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Especially the lead section, pinging जैन The Rahul Jain -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · count) 07:54, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

There's also no mention of the doctrine of Anekantavada of Mahavira which somehow explains the relation and differences between the two. According to that principal, two people can percieve the same knowledge in two different ways. This clearly explains Shiva as Rishabha. Rishabha attained Moksha at kailasha, the place where Shiva lives. Shiva has thrishul, Rishabha also had trishul (shool means Gyan in Sanskrit, trishul referes to ratantray). Shiva is depicted as bhola which has no worldly desires so is rishabha. Shiva has third eye which demolishes the world. Rishabha has third eye (Kevala gyana) which demolishes his worldy ambitions (karma). Shiva is carrier of ganga. Ganga is depicted to have entered the world washing the feet of Rishabha. Shiva's vehicle is Bull so is Rishabha's symbol. Shiva is shown married to shakti (goddess of power), Tirthankara is depicted to own the greatest of world's power. Shiva is shown playing his damru, Rishabha also damruing (couldnt find a better word for English) his karmas. Linga also means adobe or residence. Shiva linga resembles kailash parvat where Shiva resides or Rishabha attained Moksha. Jains also worship places where arihants attained Moksha like Shikharji mangitungi etc.-- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · count) 08:19, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Similar depictions of kala dravya or time (jainism) as kali (goddess). Brahma is another name for Rishabha because he created the 4th kala by teaching people worldly deeds when kalpavriksha fell and his image resembles the samavasarana completely. Durga, or any other deity of Hinduism can be understood within Jainism as well with the principle of Anekantavada. Famous Jain saints have time and again stated that the graphical depictions of philosophies which were created for people for them to understand easily, were misunderstood to be beings in themselves. -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · count) 08:19, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Sir, you can improve the article as long as you use reliable sources. I agree with you that article should focus on similarities and differences between the philosophies of the two religions. If you want to make some constructive changes, you are welcome to do so.- Rtalk 13:38, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Recent removal of content[edit]

Recently, the following content has been removed: "To demonstrate the authority of Jainism over Hinduism, jain monks such as Haribhadra wrote satires in which he says that cheats, theives and other low tricksters gathered and created various stories which were then ascribed to various gods. This is how the Hindu pantheon of gods came to be. He made a point that humans would imitiate gods, if gods behaved badly in the stories, so will the humans. Hindu deities, such as Shiva, are generally viewed in purely negative terms within Jainism.[1]"

Harisena, another digambara monk, writes that a Jain monk and nun broke their vow of chasity and gave birth to a boy who was named Rudra (literally: "terrible"). Rudra is one of the ephitets of Shiva. Rudra became a monk and meditated on Mount Kailasa which is a sacred place associated with Shiva. At Kailasa, he was attracted to a group of girls who came there to bath. Their father was a king whose throne was taken by his evil brother. Rudra restored their father to the throne and consequently married those girls. The magical heat of his semen and his massive penis killed most of the girls.[1] Uma was not destroyed by this because she new him from previous lives. Shiva then declared himself as the creator of the world when he experienced tremendous sexual plessure with Uma. He then spread the shiva doctrine. The kings were afraid that they might lose their kingdom to Shiva, hence they tricked Uma to reveal the secret of how he may be killed. They then killed them while they were sleeping together. Harisena says that linga, the emblem of shiva's penis, is situated all around India to counter the effect of murdered Shiva's magic. This is credited to a Jain monk who advised the kings to do so. Thus, Harisena not only degrade Shiva but also attributes the presence of his penis to Jainism.[2]"

I am not sure how this is not-sourced as mentioned in the [1]. The book as well as page number is mentioned clearly. Therefore, I am reinstating it. I request the concerned editor to please discuss as per WP:BRD before removing it again. --Rahul (talk) 15:27, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

I saw two more paragraphs, apart from those mentioned above were removed. They did not have inline references indeed. However, general references are provided in the "sources" section and hence it is not a reason good enough to remove it just for the lack of inline references. I will, anyways, add them back with proper inline citation soon. --Rahul (talk) 15:34, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Not encyclopedic[edit]

Edit-delete-not encyclopedic.svg I have removed the controversial content because its Not Encyclopedic- You are adding stories written by Jain monks to the article. While editing Wikipedia, we should remember that we are editing an encyclopedia, like Encyclopaedia Britannica. Instead of copying complete satires, a statement regarding the same should be added. Like 'Jain monks like Harisena, .. wrote satires on Shiva mythology'. Pinging admin NeilN for better opinion. -Rtalk 03:31, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

It is completely encyclopedic to write what kind of stories they wrote. Also, if your bold edits are reverted, please do not edit-war. I would kindly refer you to WP:BRD. --Rahul (talk) 11:21, 14 September 2015 (UTC)