Talk:Kevin Clash/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Khazar2 (talk · contribs) 04:45, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi Christine, assuming you wouldn't mind another review from me so soon, I'd be glad to take this one. (If you'd rather have a fresher pair of eyes on your work, though, I won't be the least offended to hand this off to someone else.) Little Miss Khazar is just starting to recognize Elmo, so Kevin Clash's voice is a pretty regular feature of my world right now! Initial comments to follow in the next 1-5 days... -- Khazar2 (talk) 04:45, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

No, I don't mind at all, as long as the articles I submit get reviewed. Anyone's eyes will do! And I know what you mean about Elmo taking over your life. I always say that I secretly resent him because I suspect my kids love him more than me! ;) Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 15:55, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Initial comments

As appears to be your standard, this is terrific work. I particularly want to thank you for helping to "ride herd" on this one during the Clash resignation debacle. I remember the article then--a few lines about Elmo and a few paragraphs about the scandal--and this is a much better balance.

Ah, thanks; you're so nice. Yah, my heart broke a little while all that was going on. I don't cringe every time I hear Clash's voice through Elmo anymore, but it's still stings a little. I must say, this was not a fun article for me to edit at all. I resented feeling forced into it, because I'm sure that the article would've been awful if I hadn't stepped up. I also resented having all that shoved in my face, both people's reactions to it and being exposed to that crap for a few weeks. I submitted it to GAC because it needs a level of protection, especially if any more news breaks, and heck, I might as well get something from it. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk)

Looking over the talk page, I can see how annoying this one must have been as the news was breaking. Yeah, GA is a good plan. Even for users who don't recognize the icon, my experience is that sloppy drive-by edits are rarer on articles that look and sound professional; once an article gets fairly comprehensive, users are less inclined to mess with it. I'll keep this one on my watchlist after this review, too. -- Khazar2 (talk) 16:23, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Anyway, like last time, I've made some minor copyedits that you're welcome to revert if you disagree with them. Other suggestions that I'm less sure about I've listed here.

• "Jim Henson, who became his boss, mentor, and friend" --would it be fair to say "who later became" here for clarity? If I remember right from Being Elmo, it was still some time before they became friends.

Right. I can see how this would be especially important, since Kermit Love "became" Clash's mentor, and right away.

• "Anything Muppets" -- can you add a one-phrase clarification of what these are? Or an explanatory footnote?

Ok, although I'd think that the link would be enough. Added "nondescript, stand-in puppets known as..."

• " Hoots the Owl (based on Louis Armstrong),[23] Baby Natasha, and Dr. Nobel Price," -- not necessary for GA status, of course, but it would be nice to add a few words about who each of these characters were for a reader unfamiliar with them.

Well, doesn't everyone know the Muppets from just their names? ;) Done.

• "innumerable videos, DVDs, appearances, and specials" -- would be ok with you if I put in "numerous" in place of "innumerable"? In literal terms they're not innumerable.

I went ahead and did it.

• Definitely not necessary for GA status, but as I recall, there's quite a lovely quotation in the Being Elmo documentary about how Henson had once advised Clash to find the essential element for every character, and Clash decided that Elmo's would be "He loves you." Would you have any objection to my adding this, possibly as a block quotation (assuming I still have access to the doc through Netflix instant viewing)? The creation of Elmo-as-we-know-him is the big moment of Clash's life, so I don't think it'd be undue to dwell on it.

• Hm, checked the film, and the "Elmo loves you, he just loves you" quotation is from another puppeteer, so perhaps this isn't as good a fit as I'd hoped. Here's a brief quotation if you want it, though: "Frank Oz had told Clash always "to find one special hook" for each character". Clash decided that the central characteristic for Elmo should be that he "should represent love, just kissing and hugging.""(Marks, 49:30) Your call. -- Khazar2 (talk) 13:32, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

I like the quote and agree that it's important to demonstrate Elmo's development as a character, but I think that it should go into the text, and not as a stand-alone block quotation. I also want to stop the last quote at "love" and remove the kissing and hugging part, since it's a little creepy to me. I'll go ahead and make the change; if you disagree, feel free to revise. Thanks so much for the review; I'm not sure that someone without some knowledge of the topic would've given me more valuable feedback. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 15:55, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Checklist

Rate	Attribute	Review Comment
1. Well-written:
	1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.	Some small suggested clarifications above. Spotchecks show no evidence of copyright problems.
	1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.
2. Verifiable with no original research:
	2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.
	2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).
	2c. it contains no original research.
3. Broad in its coverage:
	3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.
	3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).
	4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
	5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
	6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.
	6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.
	7. Overall assessment.	Pass