Talk:Khabarovsk (disambiguation)
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Primary meaning
[edit]The following discussion is closed and will soon be archived.
The city is a very strong WP:PRIMARYTOPIC here: all other object are named after the city and can practically never be designated on their own with just one word. It thus makes sense to turn this disambiguation into a redirect. Викидим (talk) 20:00, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
- I think what you mean here is that there is no need for the existence of the disambiguation page? I suppose the issue here is WP:PARTIAL, so could the other subjects be plausibly referred to as Khabarovsk? Mellk (talk) 23:47, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
- I am a native Russian speaker, and Khabarovsk without disambiguation words practically aways designates the city. To the best of my knowledge, this carries into English. Potentially, a single word can designate proper names for other object (e.g., a ship), disambiguated by the context, but even in this case using just Khabarovsk for, say Хабаровск (подводная лодка) (Khabarovsk submarine) will almost always carry the disambiguation. Yes, I would suggest renaming the city article to Khabarovsk and keeping the disambiguation as Khabarovsk (disambiguation). The current arrangement creates an element of WP:SURPRISE IMHO. Викидим (talk) 00:05, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, but what about in English? I have noticed that the Russian regions are sometimes (erroneously) referred to by the first part, for instance without "oblast" or "krai". I am not sure if this occurs frequently or if this is simply an error (I have noticed it many times, though), but of course, in Russian, this is not the same situation. I am not sure what you mean here by renaming the city article? The city article is already called Khabarovsk? Mellk (talk) 00:10, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
- Without "region" Khabarovsk certainly would mean a city in English. In Russian situation is even simpler: Хабаровский край has Хабаровский as an adjective, so shortened version cannot be used like a noun.
- I have doble-checked, and nothing needs to be changed, sorry for the false alarm. I somehow got to the disambiguation from a one-word link, thus my confusion. I will now find this link and fix it. Викидим (talk) 00:16, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
- This and this is what I meant. The former governor of Khabarovsk Krai, Sergey Furgal, is called ex-Khabarovsk governor in the headline, although the article makes clear he was the governor of the region rather than the city (which does not have such a position). This is also from The Moscow Times where they have knowledgeable journalists. I have seen this many times, so I am not sure if "Khabarovsk" is simply used sometimes as a shorthand for the region in certain contexts. Personally I would never do this. Mellk (talk) 00:32, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
- The disambiguation here in Russian comes from the second word, Khabarovsk governor (of the region) vs. mayor (of the city), almost the same as in English (in Russia Хабаровский adjective will be used). In English, not much difference from the Khabarovsk submarine. No one would say "governor of Khabarovsk" in Russian without adding the "region". Викидим (talk) 01:09, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
- I see, I did not think in the same way in English, where "Khabarovsk governor" could be considered equivalent to "Хабаровский губернатор". But here in this particular example I see it differs in English to Russian as he is called "governor of Khabarovsk" instead. But I suppose this is besides the point as we do not need to get rid of this page. Mellk (talk) 01:21, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
- "Governor of Khabarovsk" sounds awfully wrong to me (something at the level of "mayor of Oklahoma"). RFERL uses surprisingly bad Russian grammar on occasion, probably using emigrants who forgot the language or moved too young and never learnt it properly. So I would not use them as a reference for translations either. And yes, thus is mute point. Викидим (talk) 02:07, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
- I see, I did not think in the same way in English, where "Khabarovsk governor" could be considered equivalent to "Хабаровский губернатор". But here in this particular example I see it differs in English to Russian as he is called "governor of Khabarovsk" instead. But I suppose this is besides the point as we do not need to get rid of this page. Mellk (talk) 01:21, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
- The disambiguation here in Russian comes from the second word, Khabarovsk governor (of the region) vs. mayor (of the city), almost the same as in English (in Russia Хабаровский adjective will be used). In English, not much difference from the Khabarovsk submarine. No one would say "governor of Khabarovsk" in Russian without adding the "region". Викидим (talk) 01:09, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
- This and this is what I meant. The former governor of Khabarovsk Krai, Sergey Furgal, is called ex-Khabarovsk governor in the headline, although the article makes clear he was the governor of the region rather than the city (which does not have such a position). This is also from The Moscow Times where they have knowledgeable journalists. I have seen this many times, so I am not sure if "Khabarovsk" is simply used sometimes as a shorthand for the region in certain contexts. Personally I would never do this. Mellk (talk) 00:32, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, but what about in English? I have noticed that the Russian regions are sometimes (erroneously) referred to by the first part, for instance without "oblast" or "krai". I am not sure if this occurs frequently or if this is simply an error (I have noticed it many times, though), but of course, in Russian, this is not the same situation. I am not sure what you mean here by renaming the city article? The city article is already called Khabarovsk? Mellk (talk) 00:10, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
- I am a native Russian speaker, and Khabarovsk without disambiguation words practically aways designates the city. To the best of my knowledge, this carries into English. Potentially, a single word can designate proper names for other object (e.g., a ship), disambiguated by the context, but even in this case using just Khabarovsk for, say Хабаровск (подводная лодка) (Khabarovsk submarine) will almost always carry the disambiguation. Yes, I would suggest renaming the city article to Khabarovsk and keeping the disambiguation as Khabarovsk (disambiguation). The current arrangement creates an element of WP:SURPRISE IMHO. Викидим (talk) 00:05, 13 June 2024 (UTC)