Talk:Legend of Mana/GA1

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Reviewer: CR4ZE (talk · contribs) 09:08, 5 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]


I'll take it. CR4ZE (t • c) 09:08, 5 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Lead
  • Is the mention of Square becoming Square Enix relevant here?
  • It's the standard for Square/Square Enix games where the game was originally published by Square, but has a newer version (in this case the PSN version) that's published by Square Enix. --PresN 18:40, 7 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • following the 1995 Seiken Densetsu 3—perhaps try following 1995's Seiken Densetsu
  • Done. --PresN 18:40, 7 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Gameplay
  • I'm a bit unclear on how this Land Make system works. Don't know what is meant by "structure of the game world" or what "Artifacts" are. Is there a way for you to make this clearer?
  • Tried to clear it up a bit. --PresN 18:13, 8 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Many locations have non-player characters which progress the story or sell equipment—change "which" to "who". Also, what is meant by "progress the story"? Do they give out quests? Information?
  • Done. --PresN 18:13, 8 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • "numerical attributes including HP, strength, and luck"—most non-players don't know what "HP" means. Also, what exactly do these attributes bring into the gameplay? Does HP increase the amount of damage the player can take? If yes, say so.
  • Done. --PresN 18:13, 8 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weapons grant the player the ability to perform abilities in combat—"the ability to perform abilities" is a little awkward to read. I'd suggest a minor rephrase. You could keep it simple by negating clunky prose with "Weapons let the player perform abilities in combat", especially if this is on the road to FAC.
  • Done, though I don't plan to take it to FAC since it has so little development info. --PresN 18:13, 8 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Referred to as Special Techs, these are powerful attacks—write as these abilities are powerful attacks or similar. Readers might be unclear whether a Special Tech is a weapons or an ability from the sentence prior.
  • Done. --PresN 18:13, 8 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • that can be used when the special move meter is full—but how is the meter filled?
  • Done. --PresN 18:13, 8 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Weapons" is a bit vague. Can you get an example of a weapon in there? For example, is there a special move that can be done with swords?
  • Done. --PresN 18:13, 8 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Generally, this section is a little bit vague and needs further clarity. I think there needs to be more on how the player moves through the game and gets between different gameplay modes. Right at the head of this section could go a paragraph covering the very basics of movement, combat and the like, instead of diving straight into the Land Make system because that will likely throw off a lot of readers.
  • I'll think about how to reorganize this section; I don't want to get into gameguide material but it is a bit confusing, possibly because I've never played the game. (I'm only writing it because it was the next Mana game on the line.) --PresN 18:13, 8 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Plot
  • In Setting, did the mana tree completely burn down? It says this, but then that "the drained Mana Tree slept". (Reminded me of this).
  • Reworked a bit- it burnt down, but wasn't dead. (Or, perhaps, even the dead may dreaming lie.) --PresN 18:13, 8 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • I feel like with all this discussion about quest arcs and player choice, the plot section needs to be cited to sources. Citing the game or a strategy guide at various points would be fine. Because no two players will have the same game experience, I think there needs to be some referencing to the material here because it can be WP:CHALLENGED.
  • Found a source, surprisingly, that explicitly calls those three arcs the main arcs of the story (with a bit of detail). The details of each questline should be covered by the normal "sourced to the game" plot standards; I wish I could get a game script to get more specific but it doesn't seem there is one available. --PresN 23:07, 11 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • There is some very snakey prose in spots here. Try to reduce long sentences fragmented by commas.
  • A constant problem of mine. Fixed them, I think. --PresN 23:07, 11 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Development and release
  • Is that all the material there is on the game's development? It seems a little short, but if that can't be helped, no matter.
  • Yeah, that's about it. It's the main reason I'm not going to take it to FAC- Unless I buy the Japanese Ultimania and then get someone to translate it, there's just not a lot out there- and I have no assurance that there's anything useful in the Ultimania, either. --PresN 18:13, 8 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • stated that although Ishii kept the game tied to previous titles in the series, Kawazu had a heavy influence on the design of the game is a bit vague. What is it in this game that Ishii kept consistent with previous Mana games, and what is meant by "design of the game"? Gameplay design? Art design?
  • Changed. --PresN 23:09, 10 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • late in Summer 2000. Even though it explicitly says in North America, I feel like this is violating WP:SEASON. Although, you could include in a parenthetical or footnote what the Summer months are in the US.
  • Just mentioned when the other two games of the planned triad were released instead, since there's no good way to say "the late july-august timeframe" without saying late Summer, and I don't have a source for when, exactly, they'd planned on releasing it.
  • Sinfonia Drammatica, an August 4, 2009 concert—Not sure that Sinfonia Drammatica and Symphonic Shades should be written in italics. (Based on A Seaside Rendezvous and ArtRave). You need a comma after "2009" per MOS:COMMA. Tricky, I know. (Also take note of this again later down in Legacy with February 21, 2002).
  • Did the comma, but per MOS:ITALIC, you italicize "symphonies", such as Symphonic Fantasies and Symphonic Odysseys. ArtRave and A Seaside Redezvous are considered "larger events", since they're combinations of multiple performances, and so don't get italicized. --PresN 23:09, 10 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • including stuffed toy dolls of the iconic rabite enemy—iconic according to who?
  • Changed to mascot and gave a source that I used for that term in Secret of Mana
  • As part of the Square Millennium Collection, Legend of Mana was re-released—When?
  • Added 2000, Japan-only. --PresN 23:09, 10 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • A companion book including artwork and interviews titled Seiken Densetsu: Legend of Mana Ultimania—is it the companion book or the interviews that are titled as such? try "A companion book titled Seiken Densetsu: Legend of Mana Ultimania including artwork and interviews".
  • Done. --PresN 23:09, 10 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Reception
  • These sales were lower than for Secret of Mana, which sold over 1.83 million copies between 1993 and 2004. WP:OR? The source only mentions sales of Secret of Mana (as its Japanese title), not that Legend of Mana's were lower.
  • Well, the idea was that SE listed every game that sold a bunch, and SoM was on the list and LoM was not, even though it had been out for 4-5 years; it is still a bit OR-y so I've removed it. --PresN 19:34, 11 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Legend of Mana received mixed reviews from critics, and generally received lower scores than its two immediate predecessors, Secret of Mana and Seiken Densetsu 3. WP:SYNTH. None of the three sources make this connection.
  • Removed. --PresN 19:34, 11 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • claimed that the game's graphics were one of its best points. This is probably a little nit-picky, but I don't think "graphics" can really work as a singular noun (one of its).
  • "Game" was the subject in question, but I've reorganized the sentence to clear it up. --PresN 19:34, 11 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • "may be the most impressive 2-dimensional graphics ever to grace an RPG". I'd say spell out the word "two" in the quote, because "2-dimensional" looks awkward. This is allowed per MOS:QUOTE as a "trivial spelling and typographic error" fix. Andrew Pfister's quote in the following sentence can begin with a lower-case "t" in "the" for this reason as well.
  • Done. --PresN 19:34, 11 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • "4th annual Japan Game Awards" with an upper-case "A" in "Annual"?
  • Looks like the official name at the time was the "4th Japan Game Awards", switching in 2006 to "Japan Game Awards 2006", so I've dropped annual. ([1])
  • The reviewer for GamePro and A reviewer for Next Generation—just lose "reviewer for".
  • Done, though it's actually currently standard at FAC to keep that, rather than saying that the magazine itself said something. --PresN 19:35, 11 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • I was going to comment on the indefinite singular pronoun in quotes like "no incentive to keep playing through what they felt" from an editor, but I guess the editor writing the review is representing the entire publication's opinion.
  • Switched to he anyway, so that it can't be confused with "the player"'s feelings, but they is a perfectly valid single-person pronoun even if the gender is known. That said, I also switched other "they"s where the gender was known to keep consistent. --PresN 19:34, 11 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Images
  • Reduced to ~320x240, and added a bit to the rationale. --PresN 21:47, 13 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think WP:NFCC#8 rationale on both images should be slightly expanded to explain why the image cannot be replaced with text, rather than to say "it shows what the game looks like".
  • Done. --PresN 21:47, 13 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Sources
  • agf on print sources.
  • RocketBaby probably doesn't have established reliability. Letting it slide since it's an interview.
  • #19 is down, and I need to see it because it's likely unreliable but I'll let it slide if it's an interview.
  • All good. I was confused because the 404'd link redirected to Blogger, which set off my alarm bells. CR4ZE (t • c) 14:56, 8 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Everything else checks out.

On hold for as long as need be. CR4ZE (t • c) 14:01, 7 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Mostly done; the prose concerns are fixed, and remaining is: images need to be shrunk/FURs expanded; gameplay needs to be reorganized some to be clearer. --PresN 23:07, 11 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Images done; just need to rework gameplay to be clearer. --PresN 21:47, 13 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
No rush. I'm not strict on the one-week deadline for GANs. Just let me know when you're done with Gameplay. CR4ZE (t • c) 23:20, 14 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@PresN: Where are you at with this? It's been nearly two weeks. CR4ZE (t • c) 12:22, 18 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@CR4ZE: sorry, been really busy with impending fatherhood. Finished the last bit (re-organizing gameplay to not be so confusing) so I think I've addressed everything you brought up now. --PresN 18:51, 18 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Not a problem. Good luck with it! CR4ZE (t • c) 10:07, 20 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
GA review
(see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose, no copyvios, spelling and grammar):
    b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references):
    b (citations to reliable sources):
    c (OR):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects):
    b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:
  6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales):
    b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

Overall:
Pass/Fail:

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