Talk:List of pacifists
I disagree with Woodrow Wilson. Yes, he founded the League of Nations. Yes, in his administration, the U.S. initially stayed out of WWI. On the other hand, he was involved in some central American imbroglios and even in fighting in Russia, on Russian territories, against the new Communist government. Danny
Removed Woodrow Wilson, American President, he was Commander in Chief of Military Forces Never heard to him as Pacifist.
- Which only goes to show ... well, what? Obviously that someone who has been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize (1919) is not automatically a pacifist? I for my part do not understand the inclusion of Morihei Ueshiba: The first thing that struck me when I read his page was the word "martial arts".
- So what is a pacifist?
- someone who advocates peace in their writings?
- someone who, neglecting their own personal safety, demonstrates against warfare?
- someone who signs a peace treaty?
- someone who is officially recognized as peace-loving? --KF 11:27 Jan 20, 2003 (UTC)
- I think the first two are the most important criteria you mention.
- What is also important: The _rejection_ of violence, even for "valid" targets. The Nobel Peace Prize does not make you automatically a pacifist. To wage a war and then to end it does not make you (automatically) a pacifist.
- About Morihei Ueshiba: Yes I would call him a pacifist. The article about him is not very good, and only mentions some steps in the development of Aikido, but nothing about his thoughts and intentions.
- Aikido means "The Way of Harmony of the Spirit", and is indeed a highly ethical and non-violent art.
- --zeno 01:40 Jan 21, 2003 (UTC)
- According to his son Kisshomaru (second Doshu) his father was absolutely not a pacifist. ~~
Pablo Picasso was not a pacifist. He supported the republican cause in the Spanish civil war. Also, he was a member of the French Communist Party I have removed him from the list. Saul Taylor 09:34, 22 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Being a member of Communist Party has nothing to do whether he was a pacifist or not, and removing Picasso because of his support for republicans in Spanihs civil war is aslo dubious. George Orwell is on the list and he even fought in the Spanihs civil war himself. --Kulkuri 13:12, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)
- Orwell also wrote against pacifism eg. http://www.resort.com/~prime8/Orwell/nationalism.html and in a less measured moment said "pacifism is objectively pro-fascist". So I removed him.
List of prominent living pacifists
- I have reverted your change, because many of the pacifists you've listed as dead are not. The appropriate thing to do is to merge those listed on the prominent living pacifists article in individually, which I don't have the time to do right now. Then it can be listed on VfD or simply turned into a redirect. RadicalSubversiv E 15:46, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I'll do it, then. Perhaps we can divide them into categories (like 'socialist pacifists', 'pacifists because of religion' or 'pacifist politicians', 'pacifist writers', 'pacifist scientists' when the list growns longer. --Mixcoatl 16:21, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- Good work -- thanks. I've turned List of prominent living pacifists into a redirect to this article.
- I'm hesistant about categorizing these without having a clear system which avoids overlap. Otherwise you just get an article which is difficult for the reader to navigate and leads to stupid disagreements about where to categorize someone.
Quality of the List
It seems like a lot of the people on this list are wild guesses. Cindy Sheehan is an opponent of the present war, but I've never heard her say anything that would lead me to believe she's an outright pacifist. Since pacifism is generally a position one must consciously take, it seems like adding all this people that we're speculating "might" be pacifists who haven't affirmed the fact is leaving us with a very dubious list indeed.
I mean, if we're just taking guesses here: how about adding Richard Nixon? He was a Quaker, and a large percentage of Quakers are pacifists. It seems like as good a guess as some of the people on the list.