Talk:List of teetotalers

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Overcategorization[edit]

There are several notable teetotalers to include in such a list, for example, i can list a majority of notable muslims on this list, what an overflow. My family is from Pakistan,there is 0% alcohol in hour home, ergo, we are teetotalers?. It is in Islamic law, the same way there is no pork, not finding pork or alcohol in Pakistan atleast. --108.173.175.220 (talk) 05:35, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

The term "notable" is subjective to some degree, for example there may well be people quite well known in Pakistan who are virtually unheard of in the rest of the world. As this is an English language article, the people listed should probably be limited to those who have some degree of recognition among English speaking people. A similar article in Urdu or Punjabi would certainly list more people (Pakistani and otherwise) of notability among speakers of those languages. It's a judgement call. Mediatech492 (talk) 12:28, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
In wikipedia, Notable means having an article about yourself, in the English Wiki,there's alot, and it's not even relevant to call the notable people from the muslim world teetolers because not being a teetotaler brings trouble to them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.173.175.220 (talk) 22:58, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
Sure, some might drink. But i can put almost any Muslim with a Wikipedia page into this category. 90% of Muslims are teetolers. --98.243.49.24 (talk) 03:05, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

Elisabeth Hasselbeck[edit]

Elisabeth Hasselbeck of The View; has celiac disease

Why is her coeliac disease mentioned? To the best of my knowledge, as somebody who has been diagnosed as having coeliac disease for more than 22 years, there is no connection between coeliac disease and teetotalism. The only possible link is that coeliacs shouldn't drink beer. Spirits derived from gluten-containing grains are allowed because they don't contain gluten. Just not drinking beer doesn't make somebody teetotal. I am tempted to remove the offending words!--Oxonian2006 01:05, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, I was going to make the same point. I'll remove it. --86.29.89.228 (talk) 11:24, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Rob Halford[edit]

Rob "Metal God" Halford, frontman and vocalist of heavy metal band Judas Priest has abstained form alcohol for 21 years as of January 2007.

Source: http://www.robhalford.com/quorum/showthread.php?t=78523

Matt714 01:12, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Definition and who it applies to[edit]

  • hitler was a severe amphetamine abuser. he took them most everyday. i would suggest taking his name off the list (another possibility: leave in the list but add this information)


  • I suggest we disambiguate non-drinkers who were essentially lifelong non-drinkers (e.g. Carrie Nation) and those who quit for moral reasons, and those who quit due to a history of alcohol abuse or alcoholism (e.g. George W. Bush). It could be argued that the latter does not strictly meet the definition of "teetotaler."

--67.171.28.197 18:39, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

  • I think it's difficult to determine the reasons one turns away from alcohol. One brings up George W Bush, for example, but there was a strong moral element too in that he turned to re-born Christianity when he also gave up alcohol.

I think that this list should distiguish between lifelong non-drinkers and people that were heavy drinkers but thereafter quit drinking, and this independently from the the reason they quit. For instance, listing George W Bush as a teetotaler, without saying that he was heavy drinker or alcoholist, is simply an incomplete an misleading information.

At the very least we should identify who was a teetotaller their entire life and who was a teetotaller only part of their life. Possibly with a brief note with their age and possible reasons for becoming teetotallers.

  • I find it impossible to believe that 50 Cent is a teetotaler. We all know that both him and his mother sold drugs. I would like to see some permanent proof that he has stopped drinking alchohol. --Later!!! Chili14 (Talk) 20:26, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

References[edit]

  • This page would be more useful and believable if it included references. As it stands it is useless unless it can be confirmed. --WibblyLeMoende 1 July 2005 12:09 (UTC)
I agree, especialy considering that I can remember some years ago David Letterman, who's included in the list, expressed an affinity for a specific brand of beer on his show (I think it was Heineken, but I can't remember for sure), and then convinced them to give him a few free cases in exchange for his "promotion". - Ugliness Man 10:51, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
Julian Casablancas is said her eto have 'cut back' on alcohol - that does not make you a teetotaler.
'Cutting back' sure doesn't make one a teetotaler. That listing should be removed.

David Livingstone (Explorer & Missionary)[edit]

I've read that David Livingstone was a strict teetotaler in his early life, but drank moderately in his later years. Could/should he be added to the list?

David Beckham: many articles talk about him ordering drinks at restaurants. Footnote 18, which is used as reference to him being a teetotaler, doesn't have anything to do with David Beckham and drinking. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.69.192.52 (talk) 02:10, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Mel Gibson removed[edit]

According to the article on Mel Gibson, he is a lifelong alcoholic. By his own admission he had been drinking the day of his recent arrest, and by his own admission he is an alcoholic. Whether or not it is technically classified as an "alleged DUI" is beside the point. Also it is material that is ON the page (not off the page) that must be verifiable. There is no controversy that an admitted alcoholic who admitted to being drunk recently does not belong in a list of verifiable teetotalers.JeffStickney 22:05, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

The above comment was written 9 years ago, and Gibson has since been in recovery and practicing sobriety. I think he should have another chance to be put back on this list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:A:6202:C740:2C07:4E5:EDBB:90D7 (talk) 04:12, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

The relevant question is not whether or not he is an alcoholic (he is), the question here is whether or not not he has made a commitment to abstain from the use of alcohol. We need a recent source to confirm that he is currently abstinent. Mediatech492 (talk) 14:07, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

Splitting up lifelong teetotalers and the teetotalers who used to drink [heavily][edit]

This could be very difficult because of the lack of references in this article...

But it would be a good idea. It seems to me that there is a fundamental difference between somebody who abstains purely on principle (like John Benn, William Wedgwood Benn, Tony Benn, Hilary Benn, and similar British socialist non-conformists) and somebody who abstains as the result of a drink problem (like George W. Bush).--Oxonian2006 01:22, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
Typical left-wing bias from that last contributor. Don't forget people who who quit for religious reasons, or the many ex-alcoholics in showbiz - Russell Brand and Eric Clapton jump out as examples. If someone can also be cited as a recovering alcoholic, by all means mention that, but only mentioning Bush is giving undue weight.--MartinUK (talk) 11:32, 16 February 2008 (UTC)


Don't forget that Russell and Eric also liked their heroin.
Dead people shouldn't be on the list : Stevie Ray Vaughan (raging cocaine addict)
Frank Zappa, also dead, drank whiskey on a regular basis.
Ted Nugent enjoys wine in the hot tub with the lovely Mrs. Nugent; don't know if that counts as a teetotaller or not. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.171.176.32 (talk) 23:34, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Ken Jennings[edit]

He's Mormon. Mormon's abstain from the consumption of alcohol. What more of a citation do you need?

an actual citation. like from supporting material. just because he is mormon doesn't mean that he subscribes to all mormon beliefs, all of the time. 192.223.226.6 16:52, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
I believe when he was on Jeopardy he did well at an alcohol category, which he conceded was funny as he doesn't drink per his beliefs. I'll look it up though.--T. Anthony (talk) 10:18, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
even if you did it would be considerd 'personal research' and therefore would violate wiki policy...i kick ass,1/28/8,1:57pm —Preceding unsigned comment added by Otis66Driftwood (talkcontribs) 18:56, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Why list that he's Mormon at all? None of the other notable Mormons on the list are tagged like that. i.e. The Osmonds or Stephanie Meyers. 2602:304:B249:1B69:4968:6CE:BA8A:356D (talk) 08:54, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
Having a background with a particular religious denomination or ethnic group is not the same thing as being a devout practitioner of the beliefs associated with that group. We need something that says they have a personal commitment to abstinence. Mediatech492 (talk) 11:18, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

Lovie Smith[edit]

Heya. Just added Lovie to the list after reading that he was a teetotaler in today's Chicago Tribune. Don't know how to add a proper citation for that. 64.81.138.223 19:36, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Are Scientologists allowed to drink? I don't think they are, then John Travolta etc. should all be added to the list.

  • no, they shouldn't be - you need an actual citation stating something like, "John Travolta abstains from drinking alcohol." 192.223.226.5 15:25, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
    • I haven't been able to find anything about Scientology forbidding alcohol. As far as I can tell they have no position. You might be thinking of Christian Scientists, who aren't allowed to drink. In either case, it can't be assumed that someone is a teetotaler just based on their religion.Gartner 19:15, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

encyclopedic worth?[edit]

there are around 230 individuals listed as teetotalers, and over 150 of them need citations - nearly two-thirds don't have citations! this article needs some serious work. at the very least, all of the individuals listed as teetotalers in need of a citation should be commented out, and put back in as supporting material is found. the encyclopedic worth of an entry that is mostly made up of unsupported statements is pretty low... 192.223.226.6 16:50, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

There are things like the Prohibition Party and Temperance movement, which make the topic of some historical interest. Granted Temperance was mostly about reducing consumption, but a fair number of them favored personal abstention. I hope the article's problems are eventually resolved as this is one of the few things Wikipedia can do few places would. (Lists are probably one of the best things about Wikipedia. If you want good articles on history or society you generally should not make this your third or nineteenth stop)--T. Anthony (talk) 10:32, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Hitler[edit]

He was a drinker as well as a big druggie. I'm going to remove his name. Nbruschi 19:14, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

^^Prescribed drugs? - Well in that case I believe that almost every article on this website must be re-written... Almost everyone uses prescribed drugs, so we should make a massive list of 'big druggies' and include at least 70% of the total names on this website. Is there any proof that adolf hitler was a drinker? Besides aiding his sleep during the war? If not I suppose we could say he was a teetotaler up until the war turned against him. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.200.162.14 (talk) 16:07, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

  • I found another page with a citation stating that Hitler was indeed a teetotaler, so I have added him back to the list. If anyone can find better citations that are contrary to this, fair enough.

--Duckflesh 19:44, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

There are a lot of disputed "facts" about Hitler, including this. Even our own articles contradict each other with Vegetarianism of Adolf Hitler stating that he was teetotal (using the source you used) but Adolf Hitler's medical health saying that he "more or less eschewed alcohol until the war went badly (when he used it to aid his sleep)". I think it would be best to remove him until further sources are found, but even then it could be problematic as we will find contradictory sources too. violet/riga (t) 20:55, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
He liked the image of being a teetotaler, but I've seen film clips of his drinking wine so I'm skeptical. I do believe there were Nazi teetotalers though.--T. Anthony (talk) 10:34, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Ian Kershaw (Hitler biographer, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Kershaw ) mentions Hitler adding sugar to wine, which would make him not a teetotaller. I don't have a direct reference, but here is a review of the biography which mentions 'or how Hitler drank wine (he added sugar to it)': http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1059125.html 202.133.139.103 (talk) 03:46, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Currently, the citation re: Hitler's use of alcoholism is a NYT's article in which a psychologist glibly repeats the widely-held belief that Hitler was a teetotaler. I'm not saying he's wrong -- but given the evidence to the contrary cited above, I think he should be removed from the list until somebody can find something that conclusively contradicts Kershaw. 75.100.92.236 (talk) 02:11, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

major problem with citations[edit]

okay, i dont know if anyone has checked the citations, i began to when i realized that several of them linked to a blog at the school newspaper of the university of illinois at urbana-champaign. this blog lists teetotalers, yes, but it actually uses this very page as its own source. i dont know if the citation was done in jest or in malice but it's entirely inappropriate for the only source for some of this information to be this page. - 68.79.16.129 15:54, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree, it is totally inappropriate. I've removed all the references to http://blogs.dailyillini.com/opinions/2007/04/ 149.159.131.131 00:26, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

citation issues and original research/inferences[edit]

this article needs a major cleanup - there are way too many people listed as teetotalers without proper citations. additionally, some of the citations that are given to show people are teetotalers are simply inferences that the original poster made on their own. For example:

  • Ben Affleck is said to be a teetotaler, when in fact the citation merely states that he has "sett[led] down."
  • Elizabeth Hasselbeck is said to be a teetotaler, merely through the fact that she has celiac disease (the fact that she has celiac disease is also uncited)

I'd like to flag this article for review - there are simply too many uncited references, and i'd feel a whole lot better about this page if another unbiased set of eyes looked at it. if no one objects, i'll put the following templates at the top:

Theroyalweman (talk|user|contribs) 18:44, 20 September 2007 (UTC)


Fictional Teetotalers[edit]

It seems that someone has totally removed the list of fictional teetotalers without even mentioning it here. That seems very abrupt, and I would argue that said section was very relevant to the article. Is there any way to restore it?

--Duckflesh 19:44, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

It was a pointless section and contrary to WP:TRIVIA. This list shouldn't go into Batman and MacGyver's drinking habits. It was too small and brief to be useful anyway. violet/riga (t) 20:58, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Doesn't the absence of fictional people make the heading "Real People" superfluous? Gr8white (talk) 19:49, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree, I fixed that. EchetusXe (talk) 16:56, 9 August 2008 (UTC)


Note: Bruce Wayne is still on the list. He should be removed if fictional characters are to be excluded (which I would agree with) 82.126.11.170 (talk) 09:43, 16 March 2013 (UTC) I removed it after logging in. Lejyby (talk) 09:51, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Good job everyone[edit]

Reading the discussion page it looks like this article has been vastly improved. It seems to me everyone on the list has a citation to verify the claim as well as is reasonable. Please keep adding those you come accross as long as you have a decent reference! EchetusXe (talk) 16:59, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

John Wilkes Booth[edit]

I was glad to see an earlier reference to John Wilkes Booth removed from this list. All historians agree, based on the testimony of eyewitnesses, that he was drinking heavily the night he murdered Abraham Lincoln. He and his cohort David Herold made a stop at Surrattsville, Md. around midnight that night, where he drank a dollar's worth of whiskey. Indeed, he may have started a binge when news of Lee's surrender reached him. 45750born (talk) 15:41, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Marie Antoinette[edit]

She seems to be listed twice as "Marie Antoinette, The Queen of France during the French Revolution; married to King Louis XVI" under A and "Marie-Antoinette, French Queen and Austrian Archduchess [115]" under M. Unsure of which is preferable, so posted on here instead of removing one. 86.136.210.98 (talk) 09:14, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

also phillip jensen and wayne pearce

Adam Ant[edit]

Under Adam Ant's entry in Wikipedia, it indicates that he began to drink again on his 47th birthday, per his daughter's suggestion that he "live it up a little." 45750born (talk) 12:13, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

"John the Stutterer"[edit]

Isn't he the same as John Melendez, announcer for THE TONIGHT SHOW under Jay Leno? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 45750born (talkcontribs) 12:13, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes, and he smokes a boatload of pot.

Wikipedia editors suck. And they can suck a big one. Dynamic IP addresse, beetches! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.171.176.32 (talk) 23:37, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Frank Zappa[edit]

While Frank was contemptuous of alcoholics and of beer in general, I really don't think he was teetotal. I'm pretty sure he liked an occasional glass of wine. Also, at the end of his life his famous soirees originally started off as margarita nights. Does anyone have a cite for him as a teetotaler? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.176.224.49 (talk) 15:25, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Eucharistic Wine[edit]

While it's true that Eucharist in the Roman Catholic, Anglican, and Eastern Orthodox Churches necessarily includes wine, it is not true that observant members are required to drink the wine. Among Roman Catholics, it's probably more common for rank-and-file members to receive the bread only, and it's permissible for Anglicans as well (I don't know about Eastern Orthodox). Receiving only the bread (or, for that matter, the wine only, for those who don't mind alcohol but want to avoid gluten) is considered a complete communion. +Angr 09:59, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Close. It's not strictly true in the Roman Catholic rite in that Priests who are "alcoholic or allergic" (newsflash: you can't be allergic to acohol, since it contains no protein) are allowed to use unfermented grape juice. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.171.176.32 (talk) 23:41, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Religious section edits[edit]

I'm going to go ahead and restore my wording of the this paragraph. The claim that it's "blatantly biased" is nonsensical, as religious teetoalism fits every accepted definition of superstition, including those listed on our sister project wiktionary and the opening sentence of superstition (Superstition is a credulous belief or notion, not based on reason or knowledge. - e.g.: the belief abstaining from alcohol will grant divine favor from supernatural beings after death). Additionally, the current wording "...can be considered to be teetotalers as it is a belief of all of their religions" is grammatically misleading and unclear - what is a "belief of" these religions? That these specific people are teetotalers? That all practicioners are considered teetotalers? and so on. Furthermore it's improper usage to begin a sentence with "however." Do not change it back without addressing all of these points. "You have offended my god" is not a valid counterpoint, to get that out of the way early. --NEMT (talk) 16:27, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Superstition is a negatively charged word and referring to people's religious beliefs as "superstitious" is offensive and a clear violation of WP:NPOV. I've changed it to "...can be considered to be teetotalers as abstention from alcohol is a tenet of all these religions" as this is clearer while still remaining neutral. +Angr 16:36, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
Massacre, murder, etc. are negatively charged as well, should we reword every article relating to them? "Negatively charged" or not the usage is apt in this case and wikipedia isn't censored. --NEMT (talk) 17:23, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
We are actually very careful not to call things "massacres" or "murders" unless they've been described that way by reliable sources. The usage is not apt in this case unless you want to edit every article referring to religious beliefs and make them refer to them as "superstitions". And if you were to try that, you would be quickly reported to WP:AN/I, and quickly blocked if you didn't cease and desist. Wikipedia's not being censored is, of course, completely irrelevant to the argument. +Angr 19:57, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
Explain how it's not apt. Are you sure you know what superstition is? If not, wikipedia has a good article on the subject. --NEMT (talk) 22:18, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
Are you sure you know what the difference between religion and superstition is? Because so far, nothing you've written indicates that you do. +Angr 05:24, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
No, why don't you explain the difference to me? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you have at least some understanding of what superstitious means (against my better judgement), but keep in mind popularity and superstition are not mutually exclusive traits of a belief. --NEMT (talk) 14:25, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
Our article Superstition, which I assumed you had read since you linked to it above, explains the difference in the section Superstition#Superstition and religion, though not terribly well and without reference to reliable sources. Anyway, I'm asking for additional opinions at the NPOV noticeboard. +Angr 08:49, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
and teetotalism falls well within what's classified as superstition in religion in that very article. --NEMT (talk) 20:15, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

<- Where are the sources that provide mandatory WP:V compliance ? Sean.hoyland - talk 09:33, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

I would have to agree. If RS do not call a ban on harmfull and solcialy problomatic (if very fun) activities superstition then we can't.I agree it needs re-wording, to say "...can be considered to be teetotalers as Alcohol is prescribed by their religionsSlatersteven (talk) 11:54, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
Think the word "superstitously" is either otiose here (because, if you are of that POV, then "superstitious" goes without saying when religion is mentioned) or possibly just incorrect (because a ban on alcohol might not be based on "otherwise you will go to hell", but on something akin to health and social policy grounds, depending on the religion). So in short, please remove the word "superstitiously". --FormerIP (talk) 13:52, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

The point you're missing is the alcohol ban in many (if not all) of the listed faiths is unequivocally superstitious, it's not a matter of opinion. Granted religious bans on alcohol consumption may have spawned from practical social and cultural issues, but they are not framed as such today. Islam, as just one example, has its alcohol ban traced not to Muhammad (whose initial stipulation was merely to not show up drunk to prayers, or something to that effect) but to later leaders transforming it to "drink and divine retribution shall befall ye!" or some other similar nonsense. Some mention of the superstition nature of these beliefs needs to be made and it's an NPOV violation to not clarify the nature of teetotalism in religion and present them as rational, sound beliefs. If there are religions that ban alcohol due to its health effects and involve no threat of supernatural punishment mention them as exceptions (and be sure to point out the overwhelming medical consensus of alcohol not being harmful in moderation and having positive health effects, while you're at it). --NEMT (talk) 20:15, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

I came here from the NPOV noticeboard. It is my opinion that there is a distinction between religious beliefs and superstitious beliefs but without a reliable source for making the change User:NEMT is proposing, this talk does not need to go to that debate. NEMT is being snarky when not assuming good faith by writing "No, why don't you explain the difference to me? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you have at least some understanding of what superstitious means (against my better judgement)" and NEMT's edit is not appropriate. I checked User:NEMT's talkpage and contributions; this user seems to be an editor who has a long history of making some good edits, but sometimes goes trolling, such as here.
More than a WP:NPOV issue, this is as User:Sean.hoyland writes a WP:VERIFIABILITY issue. NEMT, if you are going to pursue this, could I ask you to provide a reliable source which states that any of those religions has a superstitious belief in alcohol abstinence? I would support removing words related to "superstition" unless this debate becomes more grounded. Thanks, all. Blue Rasberry 20:21, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for pointing to that talk page archive, Bluerasberry. Not only the section you linked to but many of the other threads in that archive show a past behavior of making unhelpful edits to articles and then defending them when called out on them. While it's been almost four years since he's been blocked for vandalism and incivility, the unhelpful editing (complete with misleading edit summary) has continued much more recently. +Angr 21:00, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
The verifiability issue would be in establishing the bans themselves, which are all clearly explained (I imagine, I'm not checking) in various well sourced en.wiki articles on the religions in question. Their superstitious nature isn't a matter of verifiability or NPOV, as no religion is going to openly declare its doctrine superstitious. Regardless, even a cursory understanding of what superstitions are could lead a rational editor to no other conclusion than religious teetotalism being a purely superstitious practice. --NEMT (talk) 20:41, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
Arguing from first principals is always waste of time here. Policies govern content decisions and there's no way to avoid them. Information has to be based on reliable sources rather than editor's models of the real world no matter how rational those editors may be. Opinions can't be stated as facts in Wikipedia's narrative voice unless the opinion represents a genuine consensus in reliable sources. This is certainly inconvenient as it prevents me from adding '..and is widely regarded as complete nonsense' to the end of the first sentence in every article about religion but "rules is rules". Sean.hoyland - talk 03:59, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
Which policy, exactly, states definitions of words are a matter of opinion? Also, speaking of reliable sources, shouldn't the burden of proof here be on those claiming these beliefs aren't superstition, i.e.: show they have some merit to them and aren't just metaphorical gri gris. --NEMT (talk) 04:07, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
Policies govern which words you can use and how you use them to describe something in a verifiable way not what the words mean. Of course the definitions of words are a matter of opinion but so what, the meaning of the word isn't even relevant most of the time. You don't need to know what teetotaler means in order to state "X is a teetotaler" as long as that statement complies with WP:V. It's the WP:SYN policy that prevents you from stating things like "alcohol is superstitiously banned in these faiths" because you can't "combine material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any of the sources." There's no requirement to prove a negative, to justify the absence of information and the absence of a categorization. That's the opposite of what WP:V requires, see WP:PROVEIT. Sean.hoyland - talk 05:23, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
Why is it so difficult for you to understand this is the literal, universally accepted definition of superstition, not an opinion and not OR? It's the claim that it's an opinion which requires sources/verifiability, as disputing the superstitious nature here requires ANYTHING to suggest otherwise. What's worse is someone with no knowledge of religion or alcohol who read this article would come away with the assumption one can curry divine favor through these practices, so to claim no mention is NPOV by default is also wrong. You can frame it anyway you like but there's a massive disconnect between what you're doing in practice and the actual point you're arguing (leads me to believe you're a crank). There is no issue of opinion here. --NEMT (talk) 10:43, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
We are not talking about the definition of Superstitious, we are talking about do any RS say that alcahol is banned becasue of superstition. Besides I do not agree that hte ban on alcohol is superstitious, so why is your opinion more valid them mine?Slatersteven (talk) 12:39, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
Again, it's not a matter of opinion. The wording was based on the accepted definition of superstition. You are unequivocally mistaken if you don't think religious teetotalism fits this model. --NEMT (talk) 12:59, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
su·per·sti·tion (spr-stshn)
n.
1. An irrational belief that an object, action, or circumstance not logically related to a course of events influences its outcome.
2.
a. A belief, practice, or rite irrationally maintained by ignorance of the laws of nature or by faith in magic or chance.
b. A fearful or abject state of mind resulting from such ignorance or irrationality.
c. Idolatry.
I would also say that prescriptions on alcohol are based on Logic (its harfull, and causes many social probloms). Nor does it fit into the other catargaries as clearly alcohol is not baned becasue of any magical properties it has (and its not a rite any way). The only area where it might fit is the idea that drinkig alchol might not get you into heavan, but is that ture?Slatersteven (talk) 14:00, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
NEMT, even with literal, universally accepted definitions of simple concepts you are still required to comply with policies to ensure that the information is handled in a policy compliant way. Consider simple words like 'empty', 'full', 'half' and a 500mL glass containing 250mL of alcohol. You still need a reliable source to make the choice whether the glass is in the set of things that are 'half full' or 'half empty' or both. A reliable source has to say what something is, what it is categorized as, not you. It doesn't matter whether you think religious teetotalism is or is not superstition or whether you think someone is unequivocally mistaken if they think X doesn't fit model Y etc. The way you classify things doesn't matter. It's not your decision. You aren't a reliable source. What I am doing in practice is telling you that there are rules and we have to comply with them. I've shown you the policies and how they apply to this case. If that leads you to believe that I'm crank that says more about you than me. Several editors have told you what you need to do. You can say no as much as you like but you're wasting your time. Find a source that supports the statement you want to add. Sean.hoyland - talk 14:05, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Bruce Willis[edit]

I know it may be just business but Willis became a face of one of polish brands of vodka saying “I choose products with which I want to be associated very carefully,”. It looks like he's drinker, at least IMO.

(source: http://newzar.wordpress.com/2009/04/29/bruce-willis-new-face-of-polish-vodka/) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.27.31.65 (talk) 17:28, 2 August 2010 (UTC)


=[edit]

I've noticed that a lot of these names are unsourced or their sources don't explicitly identify them as teetotalers, or in some cases, actually give information that disqualifies them from the title. For example, a "social drinker" who has a cocktail once in a while is not a teetotaler. I suggest massive cleanup. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.22.180.181 (talk) 02:55, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

David Beckham[edit]

I deleted David Beckham because there is a picture of him here drinking a beer! - http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/27042010/58/27042010070227.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Iloveboxes (talkcontribs) 15:44, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Corey Taylor[edit]

I'm deleting him from the list. You see him drinking a beer on the making of the Psychosocial video, and in interviews he says he still drinks, just a lot less. Furthermore, neither of the articles listed as sources actually say he abstains in any way. 24.166.58.71 (talk) 08:13, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Kenny Egan - Irish Boxer[edit]

He has publicly admitted to being alcoholic - Feb 2011 and is attending AA meetings. He is sober since, one day at a time. Have not used wiki before, just wanted to add him to the list... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Serenitydempsey (talkcontribs) 12:22, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

bruce lee[edit]

when bruce lee passed away, his autopsy revealed cannabis in his system. also the site with the references/source has been taken down. so i removed his entry because i don't believe he was teetotal — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.191.112.210 (talk) 17:26, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Teetotalism is the abstinence from alcohol, it has nothing to do with cannabis. Mediatech492 (talk) 19:08, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Titus Salt[edit]

He must haVE BEEN ONE BUT SOME SOURCES SAY HE WAS NOT?! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.232.237.57 (talk) 20:37, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

Titus Salt[edit]

Titus Salt was not a teetotaller , even though he banned building pubs in Sailtaire and that is why there is a pub called Don't Tell Titus now near the River Aire. Oliwier1111 (talk) 20:42, 5 July 2012 (UTC)


Roy Rogers[edit]

Roy Rogers is noted for consistently playing teetotaller characters, but was this part of his on-screen persona or was it something he practised in real life? I've been trying to find a reliable source to confirm this with no success. Mediatech492 (talk) 15:21, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Vladimir Putin[edit]

I don't think Putin is a teetotaler. I've read somewhere that he only drinks beer, his recent appearance in the Dutch winter Olympics house (Holland Heineken Huis) seems to prove that he at least drinks beer...... http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/boulevard/entertainment/koning-willem-alexander-pakt-biertje-met-poetin — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.18.82.195 (talk) 14:19, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

George Bernard Shaw?[edit]

"I'm only a beer teetotaler, not a champagne teetotaler." --95.112.69.44 (talk) 19:10, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

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Fearne Cotton[edit]

Here is a 2016 picture of Fearne Cotton drinking a G&T- http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3773076/Fearne-Cotton-gets-new-tattoo-honouring-David-Bowie-35th-birthday.html

I have now deleted her. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Iloveboxes (talkcontribs) 17:32, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

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