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<includeonly></includeonly><!-- ''Please start'' new discussion at the bottom of this talk page, or use the EDIT button beside the section heading to add to it. This "section edit button" is important, so please use it -->
[[Category:Main Page]]
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<div style="right:10px;" class="metadata topicon">'''{{Currentdate}}'''</div>
{{Wikipedia:Main Page/Errors}}
=General discussion=
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Please start new discussion at the bottom of this talk page, or use the EDIT button beside the section heading to add to it. The edit button is important, so have the courtesy to use it.
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== Experimenting ==

I've been experimenting with a shadowing template I created and decided to test it in my [[User:Mistman123/Testing/Main Page/Experiment|Main Page sandbox]]. Please check it out and give me feedback. ~[[User:Mistman123|<b><i><font color="#157DEC">RayLast</font></i></b>]] <sup><b>«[[User talk:Mistman123|<font color="#F88017">Talk!</font>]]»</b></sup> 23:01, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
:Nevermind. It doesn't work for Firefox. Darn I hate these differences. ~[[User:Mistman123|<b><i><font color="#157DEC">RayLast</font></i></b>]] <sup><b>«[[User talk:Mistman123|<font color="#F88017">Talk!</font>]]»</b></sup> 23:06, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
::It works fine in my Firefox, having said that I'm using Firefox 3b5. I took a look, its an interesting effect, might steal it for my userpage if you don't mind. Time to see if the masses like it now :). [[User:Ferdiaob/My_Musings|&#9775;]][[User:Ferdiaob|Ferdia O'Brien]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Ferdiaob|(T)]]</sup></small>/<small><sub>[[Special:Contributions/Ferdiaob|(C)]]</sub></small> 12:07, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

:It doesn't work for Firefox 2. So people won't like it. I'll try and fix it later some time and let you guys know. ~[[User:Mistman123|<b><i><font color="#157DEC">RayLast</font></i></b>]] <sup><b>«[[User talk:Mistman123|<font color="#F88017">Talk!</font>]]»</b></sup> 14:29, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

::What was supposed to happen anyway? I saw little gray boxes at the corners. FF 2.0 user. --'''[[User:Howard the Duck|<font color="#FFA500">Howard</font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Howard the Duck|<font color="#FFA500">the</font>]] [[User talk:Howard the Duck|<font color="#FFA500">Duck</font>]]''' 16:16, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
::: I'll screenshot it in a few minutes, thanks for the intel on my talk page btw Mistman123. [[User:Ferdiaob/My_Musings|&#9775;]][[User:Ferdiaob|Ferdia O'Brien]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Ferdiaob|(T)]]</sup></small>/<small><sub>[[Special:Contributions/Ferdiaob|(C)]]</sub></small> 16:23, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
:::: Hmm, it appears my work PC is being as useful as ever, so I'm going to have to extend that "in a few minutes" to in a few hours :( [[User:Ferdiaob/My_Musings|&#9775;]][[User:Ferdiaob|Ferdia O'Brien]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Ferdiaob|(T)]]</sup></small>/<small><sub>[[Special:Contributions/Ferdiaob|(C)]]</sub></small> 17:31, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
::::: I made a [http://www.geocities.com/mistman123/MainPageExperimentIE.jpg screenshot] for those who have Firefox 2. I'll be trying to fix this later. Maybe after taxes. ~[[User:Mistman123|<b><i><font color="#157DEC">RayLast</font></i></b>]] <sup><b>«[[User talk:Mistman123|<font color="#F88017">Talk!</font>]]»</b></sup> 18:08, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::: Well once they roll out FF3.0 there'll be no real need, FF like to make sure everyone is using the correct version. [[User:Ferdiaob/My_Musings|&#9775;]][[User:Ferdiaob|Ferdia O'Brien]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Ferdiaob|(T)]]</sup></small>/<small><sub>[[Special:Contributions/Ferdiaob|(C)]]</sub></small> 19:39, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::::There is actually a significant number of people who use the older versions- see the lower table [[Firefox#Market_adoption|here]]. [[User:J Milburn|J Milburn]] ([[User talk:J Milburn|talk]]) 19:48, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
I just wanted your opinions on how it looked. I don't think it should be implemented anytime soon anyway. I'm thinking of adding some image buttons and test some other stuff to make it look nice, although I really like the current, simple, nice colored main page. I don't envy any other Wikipedia main pages in other languages. Simple is nice. ~[[User:Mistman123|<b><i><font color="#157DEC">RayLast</font></i></b>]] <sup><b>«[[User talk:Mistman123|<font color="#F88017">Talk!</font>]]»</b></sup> 20:55, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
:Wow... that's actually really nice. I don't think it's completely appropriate for the main page but it's an interesting bit of code, that you can actually get it to do that. Well done. I might nick it for my userpage too, when FF3.0 rolls out, and sod the people who deliberately click 'no' at the upgrade prompt. Just looking at the source... doesn't it add a hell of a lot of code to the page it's transcluded on though? Just for a few images/headers? Any way you could shrink that down a bit? —[[User:Vanderdecken|Vanderdecken]]∴ '''[[User talk:Vanderdecken|∫]][[Special:Emailuser/Vanderdecken|ξ]][[Special:Contributions/Vanderdecken|φ]]''' 09:19, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

:It looks great. I'd agree with this being on the Main Page once a stable version of Firefox 3 is released. The people using the older versions won't be hurt in any way, the only difference for them will be the little grey squares. [[User:Puchiko|Puchiko]] ([[User Talk:Puchiko|Talk]]-[[Special:Emailuser/Puchiko|email]]) 16:31, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

:Doesn't look correct in Konqueror 3.5.8 either -[[Special:Contributions/62.172.143.205|62.172.143.205]] ([[User talk:62.172.143.205|talk]]) 19:08, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

:Yuck... I don't think it looks too good from the screenshot. Makes everything look too deep and complicated. [[User:Tarthen|-Tarthen Blazerken]] ([[User talk:Tarthen|talk]]) 08:20, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

::Well anyone interested in helping me fix it for other browsers, you can get/copy the code from {{tlu|User:Mistman123/Templates/Shadow}}. I don't have enough time to go through the code and test changes in all these different browsers, so any help is certainly welcome. When you get something working please let me know or post your code's link somewhere so I can check it out and possibly copy it back [[Image:Face-grin.svg|22px]]. ~[[User:Mistman123|<b><i><font color="#157DEC">RayLast</font></i></b>]] <sup><b>«[[User talk:Mistman123|<font color="#F88017">Talk!</font>]]»</b></sup> 20:35, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

:::Safari 3.1 doesn't display this alternate page at all nicely, inserting a small two-tone grey square on the bottom right of the box but no further. [[User:Bobo192|Bobo]][[User talk:Bobo192|.]] 02:43, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

::::Yep. The template's page has the Safari caveat too. You can help fix it though. ~[[User:Mistman123|<b><i><font color="#157DEC">RayLast</font></i></b>]] <sup><b>«[[User talk:Mistman123|<font color="#F88017">Talk!</font>]]»</b></sup> 03:39, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
::::Since Firefox 3.0 doesn't run on Linux using wine, I would say ":("--[[User:Jahilia|Jahilia]] ([[User talk:Jahilia|talk]]) 15:38, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

:::::I think it shall once Firefox 3.0 will be released. Right now, it's not Firefox 3.0 it's Firefox 3 Beta 5. [[User:Puchiko|Puchiko]] ([[User Talk:Puchiko|Talk]]-[[Special:Emailuser/Puchiko|email]]) 17:27, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

== Cannibal Holocaust ==

I wish to address this complain to those responsible with the daily featured article. I absolutely disagree with the display of this kind of materials on the main page. Keep in mind that censorship has nothing to do and does not harm liberty and democracy. Anybody shares my opinion? [[User:Planck|Planck]] ([[User talk:Planck|talk]]) 23:20, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
:'''Negative'''. '''[[User:Crassic|<span style="font-family:Arial;color:#cc6600">crassic]]'''!<sup><nowiki>[</nowiki>[[User_talk:Crassic|talk]]<nowiki>]</nowiki></sup></span> 23:39, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
::I'm amazed we had to wait so long for a complaint, to be honest. And, for the record, I don't agree with you, at all, and I doubt many here will. [[Wikipedia:CENSORED|Wikipedia is not censored]], no matter how much you believe censorship has to do with liberty or democracy. [[User:J Milburn|J Milburn]] ([[User talk:J Milburn|talk]]) 23:49, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I pretty much agree. I figured it would happen. '''[[User:Crassic|<span style="font-family:Arial;color:#cc6600">crassic]]'''!<sup><nowiki>[</nowiki>[[User_talk:Crassic|talk]]<nowiki>]</nowiki></sup></span> 00:09, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
::You don't agree with me.. '''at all'''?! Well I guess Wikipedia has some policies about censure but I didn't read them yet. I mean I am quite sure a big porn picture would not be allowed on the front page.. even if it illustrates the subject. Right? so how about dropping the '''at all''' and explain why you think [[Cannibal Holocaust]] is tolerable on the main page. I totally agree with any kind of materials within articles but the front page is immediately accessible by anybody and if you think ''Cannibal Holocaust'' is right for children then don't even bother to reply.[[User:Planck|Planck]] ([[User talk:Planck|talk]]) 00:25, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Sorry, but the main page (or any of wikipedia) is not intended to be accessed by children without parental supervision. I suggest you check out our [[Wikipedia:Content disclaimer]] if you are unsure about that. Also, I don't see any reason to presume a big porn picture wouldn't be allowed on the main page, if it was necessary to illustrate the subject and available under a free license. Since there are virtually no large porn pictures available under a free license, and since it is almost never necessary to use a big porn picture to illustrate any subject it seems a somewhat pointless discussion in any case... P.S. Having said all that, it looks like it's been decided [[:Image:Michele Merkin 1.jpg]] isn't going on the main page for now despite being a FP and being up for TFP last year. [[User:Nil Einne|Nil Einne]] ([[User talk:Nil Einne|talk]]) 00:52, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
::::The concern wasn't that it was too risqué, but just that having a "[[Pin-up girl|cheesecake]]y" image as the POTD casts Wikipedia in a bad light. <span style="font-family:Verdana; ">'''[[User:Howcheng|<span style="color:#33C;">howcheng</span>]]''' <small>{[[User talk:Howcheng|chat]]}</small></span> 04:02, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Also, the main page didn't even feature an image for ''Cannibal Holocaust'', so I hardly think the analogy to a pornographic image is valid. [[User:Nufy8|Nufy8]] ([[User talk:Nufy8|talk]]) 01:48, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

:::It's probably worthwhile to keep in mind that in most forms of [[debate]], the default option is the [[status quo]] - that is, the person who wants to effect a change is the one who needs to put forward the convincing case. (The whole "[[innocent until proven guilty]]" thing.) As the status quo is "Cannibal Holocaust is on the main page", it is up to you to convince others that Cannibal Holocaust is an inappropriate article to feature on the main page, rather than it being others' responsibility to "... explain why [they] think [something] is tolerable on the main page." (And while I agree with you that there is an unwritten understanding about what is main page material, "[[think of the children]]" isn't part of the current version.) -- [[Special:Contributions/128.104.112.104|128.104.112.104]] ([[User talk:128.104.112.104|talk]]) 02:02, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
::::Pictures displaying nudity (and even child nudity) have featured on the main page before. Would you agree with not displaying material about the real Holocaust? I would say that that was far more disturbing and offensive than this film. [[User:J Milburn|J Milburn]] ([[User talk:J Milburn|talk]]) 17:25, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::I thought the article was very interesting, and provoked some discussion amongst me and a friend. It's something I never could have thought about looking up, which I'm guessing is the point of an article of the day. Like others said, a provocative image might be of concern, but not the printed word. [[User:MMetro|MMetro]] ([[User talk:MMetro|talk]]) 08:38, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

== Where is the evidence? ==

Today's featured article about Emma Goldman claims she and Alexander Birkman together planned to assassinate Henry Clay Frick. Can't find that allegation in the Goldman, Birkman or Frick articles. Is there a reference for this? [[Special:Contributions/222.153.73.194|222.153.73.194]] ([[User talk:222.153.73.194|talk]]) 01:53, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
:This should probably be moved to [[Talk:Emma Goldman]], but according to the "[[Emma Goldman#Homestead plot|Homestead plot]]" section of Goldman's article the reference appears to be Alice Wexler's ''Emma Goldman: An Intimate Life'', pages 63–65. [[User:Nufy8|Nufy8]] ([[User talk:Nufy8|talk]]) 02:22, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Just as an add: Put some more stuff about anarchy, but not just "anarchist assassins"
The last articles have been about senseless BS, focused on western culture. Where's the great diversity of Wikipedia? [[User:Iulian28ti|Iulian28ti]] ([[User talk:Iulian28ti|talk]]) 08:47, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

:Bring [[Anarchy]] up to featured status. Bring [[Anarchism in China]], [[Anarchism in Japan]], [[Anarchism in India]], [[Anarchism in Korea]], [[Anarchism in Ukraine]] or [[Anarchism in Vietnam]] up to featured status. The point is, [[WP:Be bold]]! Instead of complaining about [[WP:Systemic bias]], counter it! [[User:Puchiko|Puchiko]] ([[User Talk:Puchiko|Talk]]-[[Special:Emailuser/Puchiko|email]]) 15:29, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

== Accuracy ==

In the "on this day" section the following appears:
:1943 – Nazi German troops entered the [[Warsaw Ghetto]] to round up the remaining Jews (pictured), sparking the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, the first mass uprising in Poland against the Nazi occupation during the Holocaust.
But is this really the first mass uprising against the Nazis? What about the [[Zamość Uprising]], which started in 1942? <font style="border:solid 1px #FDD017; background:#342D7E;" color="#342D7E">[[User:Selfworm|<font color="#FBB117">selfworm</font>]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Selfworm|<font color="#FDD017">Talk</font>]])</small></sup></font> 03:49, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
:The [[Warsaw Ghetto]] article currently reads, "the Warsaw Ghetto was the scene of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, the first urban mass rebellion against the Nazi occupation of Europe." So maybe the blurb on the main page has to be worded differently to be more clearer. [[User:Zzyzx11|Zzyzx11]] [[User talk:Zzyzx11|(Talk)]] 04:17, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

== People of Freedom ==

This is not the name of the alliance, but the name of Berlusconi party. In the alliance there are ''Lega Nord'' and ''Movimento per l'Autonomia'', too. [[User:Paolotacchi|Paolotacchi]] ([[User talk:Paolotacchi|talk]]) 11:50, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
:Indeed that's a mistake: the victory was not of Berlusconi alone, but also of Lega Nord, which was decisive for his victory. --[[User:Checco|Checco]] ([[User talk:Checco|talk]]) 13:19, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

: Pls bring this up at [[#Main Page error reports]] near the top of this talkpage. --[[Special:Contributions/74.14.21.22|74.14.21.22]] ([[User talk:74.14.21.22|talk]]) 16:07, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

:: This was fixed a few hours ago. --[[Special:Contributions/199.71.174.100|199.71.174.100]] ([[User talk:199.71.174.100|talk]]) 03:39, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

== Why is the article on the [[Battle of North Borneo]] shorter than the article on the [[2008 Kids' Choice Awards]]? ==

Please tell me, oh Wikigods.<small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:208.19.13.168|208.19.13.168]] ([[User talk:208.19.13.168|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/208.19.13.168|contribs]]) 15:17, 19 April 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned2 -->

:Because no-one's yet written much in the [[Battle of North Borneo]] article. Feel free to rectify this at your leisure. :) [[User:GeeJo|GeeJo]] <sup>[[User talk:GeeJo|(t)]]</sup>⁄<sub>[[Special:Contributions/GeeJo|(c)]]</sub> <small>&bull;&nbsp;15:20, 19 April 2008 (UTC)</small>

:Yup. Wikipedia's articles are written by volunteers, and those write what they're interested in. But you can make the difference, just hit the "edit this page" button on the top of the page and contribute! [[User:Puchiko|Puchiko]] ([[User Talk:Puchiko|Talk]]-[[Special:Emailuser/Puchiko|email]]) 15:23, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
:Feel free to write the article. In any case, this isn't what the main page is here for discussing. '''[[User:Firefoxman|ff]]<font color="darkgreen">[[User talk:Firefoxman|m]]</font>''' 16:21, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

:I'd also like to add that length≠quality. The Kid's choice article is mostly a long list of nominees and winners, and the lead is terribly promotional and POV. [[User:Puchiko|Puchiko]] ([[User Talk:Puchiko|Talk]]-[[Special:Emailuser/Puchiko|email]]) 21:48, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

:[[Jessica Alba]] was involved in the Kids' Choice Awards. She did not participate in the [[Battle of North Borneo]]. One need not inquire further into why the former topic merits broader (or, at least, more pictorial) coverage (see also [[WP:HOTTIE]]). [[User:Jahiegel|Joe]] 00:20, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
::Hmm, perhaps we can encourage more celebrities to take part in military actions. I for one would be ecstatic if [[Paris Hilton]] were to take it upon herself to walk into an erupting conflict in [[Somalia]] or the like. [[User:GeeJo|GeeJo]] <sup>[[User talk:GeeJo|(t)]]</sup>⁄<sub>[[Special:Contributions/GeeJo|(c)]]</sub> <small>&bull;&nbsp;21:10, 20 April 2008 (UTC)</small>

== Columbine ==

The [[Columbine Highschool massacre]] was today, and that's not worth on this day?? [[User:KC109|&#39;&#39;&#39;&#91;&#91;User:KC109&#124;&lt;span style=&quot;background:black;color:red&quot;&gt;K&lt;/span&gt;&#93;&#93;&#91;&#91;User talk:KC109&#124;&lt;span style=&quot;background:black;color:red&quot;&gt;C&lt;/span&gt;&#93;&#93;&#91;&#91;Special:Contributions/KC109&#124;&lt;span style=&quot;background:black;color:red&quot;&gt;109&lt;/span&gt;&#93;&#93;&#39;&#39;&#39;]] ([[User talk:KC109|talk]]) 03:25, 20 April 2008 (UTC).

: Try again next year for the 10th anniversary of the [[Columbine High School massacre]]. The other 20th century events on the mainpage today are at the 30th and 40th anniversaries this year. --[[Special:Contributions/199.71.174.100|199.71.174.100]] ([[User talk:199.71.174.100|talk]]) 03:38, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
:: Wait, why does it have to be on the 10th anniversary and not the 9th? I've heard that birth/death dates of significant people are put on the main page on 100 year multiples, but nothing about other anniversaries. [[User:So Awesome|So Awesome]] ([[User talk:So Awesome|talk]]) 03:42, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

:::There are 5 slots. And we have to save some for other centuries. The 30th and the 40th anniversaries would be preferred over the 9th, I guess. --[[Special:Contributions/199.71.174.100|199.71.174.100]] ([[User talk:199.71.174.100|talk]]) 03:47, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
::: [[Ludlow massacre]] (94th anniversary this year) didn't make it, either. Maybe next year? --[[Special:Contributions/199.71.174.100|199.71.174.100]] ([[User talk:199.71.174.100|talk]]) 03:58, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

== Celebrating 4/20 as a "holiday" on the front page ==

I didn't see anyone whining yet so I thought I would be the first. This is worse than the time [[Newtonmas]] was up on Dec 25 :/ [[User:So Awesome|So Awesome]] ([[User talk:So Awesome|talk]]) 03:40, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
:That's not for holidays specifically, it just happens to be on this day. And remember (if this is your point) that [[WP:CENSOR|Wikipedia is not censored]]. '''[[User:WBOSITG|<font color="darkblue">weburiedoursecrets</font>]][[User talk:WBOSITG|<font color="navy">inthegarden</font>]]''' 08:15, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
:I don't think Soawesome talking about censorship. I think they're pointing out that this 'holiday' is little more than an excuse to smoke cannabis. However, having said that, I'll take any excuse I can get...once a year is enough for me though....Happy 4/20! [[User:DMeyering|Antimatter]]--[[User_talk:DMeyering|talk]]-- 20:44, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

== New Section ==

Is the New Section tag in discussion pages new itself? Or have I never noticed it before. -[[Special:Contributions/24.149.198.53|24.149.198.53]] ([[User talk:24.149.198.53|talk]]) 11:17, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
:It's formerly known as the "+" sign beside "Edit this page." [[Special:Contributions/119.95.17.214|119.95.17.214]] ([[User talk:119.95.17.214|talk]]) 11:30, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
::It got changed and changed back a few months ago too, if I remember correctly. I like the + personally. In any case, this isn't the place- if this discussion is to be continued, I reccomend [[WP:VP|the village pump]]. [[User:J Milburn|J Milburn]] ([[User talk:J Milburn|talk]]) 12:33, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
:::In fact, it happens that a discussion about this very issue is ongoing at [[WP:VPP|VPP]], viz. [[Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Replace "+" with "add new comment"|here]]. [[User:Jahiegel|Joe]] 17:07, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

== 1820 "on this day" ==

"French physiologist Louis Pasteur (pictured) and physiologist Claude Bernard completed the first test on pasteurization."
Surely it should be "French physiologists Louis Pasteur (pictured) and Claude Bernard completed the first test on pasteurization". the second "physiologist" is kind of unneeded. [[User:Ironholds|Ironholds]] ([[User talk:Ironholds|talk]]) 12:18, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
:Thanks for pointing that error out. You are likely to get a better response at [[Wikipedia:Main Page/Errors]] instead, so I'll move it there for you :) [[User:Puchiko|Puchiko]] ([[User Talk:Puchiko|Talk]]-[[Special:Emailuser/Puchiko|email]]) 12:23, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
::Fixed, thanks for the report. In future, [[WP:ERRORS]] would be better, but no harm done. [[User:J Milburn|J Milburn]] ([[User talk:J Milburn|talk]]) 12:29, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

== Standardisation of punctuation for anniversaries ==

Fellow editors. Two days ago, a discussion took place on [[WP:ERRORS]] about the punctuation of the top line of the ''[[Wikipedia:Selected anniversaries|Selected anniversaries]]'' section of the Main Page. It transpired during this discussion ([http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Main_Page/Errors&oldid=206666698 see diff]) that there is a general inconsistency with regards to the punctuation used in that line. On seeing one of the pages where several days' anniversaries can be viewed (more specifically, [[Wikipedia:Selected anniversaries/April|the page for April]]), it became perfectly clear that there is no standard, and that the usage of punctuation is completely haphazard and unregulated. Although the proper anniversaries are quite straight-forward, following the simple guidelines of the ''Anniversaries'' page and the [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]], the top line (listing holidays and observances) is more complex. Either commas or semicolons are used as separators, and semicolons, full stops, or nothing at all can be found at the end of the line; one can find all of their combinations with relatively little effort. On the Main Page, it is unacceptable to still have such deficiencies, and even if this is not something obvious when one only sees an isolated version of the page, it becomes so when one starts comparing different versions thereof. For the sake of professionalism, clarity, and good style, I suggest adopting a specific style for the top line of the section.

Here follows my proposal, copied from the above linked to conversation in ERRORS (there's no reason to repeat myself if I still believe the same things, don't you think?):

:''First of all, I am more annoyed by the empty top lines, where there is a plain "April 5:". What is the colon for, if there are no festivals? If it is for the anniversaries, then there is a consistency problem, because when there are festivals, there is no colon for the anniversaries.''
:''About the rest... Considering aesthetics alone, I should rather go with the guideline for captions: if there is no proper sentence, don't put a full stop. Full stops in festivals do seem a little redundant to me, and sometimes even unsightly, especially when there is just one festival (and the dot is almost lost next to the bold blue letters). For days without festivals, I'd leave the day without any punctuation at all. Generally speaking, I find no reason to show any connection (or separation) between the festivals and the anniversaries; they are distinct elements, both logically and visually.''
:''Semicolons would remain as separators, but two or three festivals in the top line would still not make a complete sentence, so there would be no exceptions to the exclusion of full stops.''

What is your opinion on this? [[User:The Duke of Waltham|Waltham]], <small>[[User talk:The Duke of Waltham|''The Duke of'']]</small> 23:10, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

:Actually, there is some sort of standard, or at least there was one for the past couple of years: The holidays and observances line should end with a period. If you compare all 366 templates on [[Wikipedia:Selected anniversaries/All]], most of them follow this.

:The reason that there was a hanging semi-colon on April 19 instead of a full stop was that it was accidentally hidden when the last holidays on the line was hidden.[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Selected_anniversaries/April_19&diff=206669713&oldid=206669512] As for the colon at the end of each date, even when there is no holidays or observances on some days, that practice has been followed since 2004 when it use to say "On [[April 19]]:", etc.[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Selected_anniversaries/April_19&direction=next&oldid=2653851] How about reverting to that?

:Of course, I noticed there may be inconsistent formatting with the non-[[Gregorian Calender]] based holidays. Compare [[Wikipedia:Selected anniversaries/March 2]] with [[Wikipedia:Selected anniversaries/March 20]]. What do you prefer? [[User:Zzyzx11|Zzyzx11]] [[User talk:Zzyzx11|(Talk)]] 23:47, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

::Be that as it may, the style guidelines have been much refined since 2004; one will notice that there are hyphens in your second diff where today there are en dashes (a significant improvement). Consensus does change, and one should perhaps consider reviewing the practice based on the latest facts. Even if we disregard that unfortunate semicolon, the fact remains that many top lines have no punctuation mark in the end, which indicates an inconsistency; its presence means that the practice of using full stops is neither clear nor fully accepted, therefore there are grounds for a discussion to be held on the matter.
::My arguments in favour of not using punctuation at the end are the following:
::* The top line does not constitute a proper sentence, therefore it is neither particularly accurate and nor especially intuitive to use full stops. If you will look at the guideline on captions, you will see that full stops are discouraged when captions only comprise what is termed as "sentence fragments". This is what we have here: sentence fragments; in a way, there is already a precedent (and I am referring to a guideline which has been discussed extensively, and most regulars at MoS will recognise this—how much was the full stop in anniversaries discussed?).
::* The full stop may look ugly, especially if the sentence fragment is very short and/or exclusively consists of a bolded phrase, which will make the full stop look strangely small; for an example, see [[Wikipedia:Selected anniversaries/April 22|April 22]].
::* Much like the line which succeeds the anniversaries (listing the day in question and the previous and following one), the top line does not have any particular visual or logical connection with the anniversaries. As the top line gives the day and a sentence fragment constituting a brief list of holidays and observances, while below it there is a bulleted list of years and complete sentences describing historical events in a past tense, the logical connection is quite feeble; the visual differences are also perceptible.
::As I have shown, not only are there valid arguments for a discussion to begin on the subject, but that the current practice has multiple flaws, which could be better addressed with a different formatting.
::Now, to address the rest of the points:
::* No, I do not believe we should revert to the "On April 19:" format, as it does not really fit either with the format in which the holidays are written (they would have to be replaced by proper sentences, which are much longer and more awkward) or with the format of the list below.
::* Although I had not given it much thought until now, I should say that my preferences lie with the [[Wikipedia:Selected anniversaries/March 20|March 20]] specimen, as I find it important that the different holidays and observances should be well-separated. In the [[Wikipedia:Selected anniversaries/March 2|March 2]] example, it is somewhat hard to apply the year to the entire string, and confusion should be avoided. [[User:The Duke of Waltham|Waltham]], <small>[[User talk:The Duke of Waltham|''The Duke of'']]</small> 00:48, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

== What's the difference between Culture and culture ? ==

What's the difference between Culture and culture ?

One has an uppercase beginning; the similarities: they both have nothing to do with the main page and should '''not''' be here. [[Special:Contributions/79.66.118.148|79.66.118.148]] ([[User talk:79.66.118.148|talk]]) 06:21, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
:It may be helpful if you link to or make a copy of what you're talking about. I don't see either on the main page at the moment [[User:Nil Einne|Nil Einne]] ([[User talk:Nil Einne|talk]]) 08:16, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
::Personally, I'd like to see more [[bacteria]]l cultures on the main page. Maybe some [[yeast]] culture also. <span style="white-space:nowrap">— [[User:Gavia immer|Gavia immer]] ([[User talk:Gavia immer|talk]])</span> 14:38, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

:::You can effect the content of the main page! Write an article about bacteria cultures, and nominate it for FA or DYK. [[User:Puchiko|Puchiko]] ([[User Talk:Puchiko|Talk]]-[[Special:Emailuser/Puchiko|email]]) 16:33, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

== News ==

All the news is set in present sense, this makes reading it confusing. To be gramatically correct it should be in past tense. Can someone please fix this up.
:This is in accordance to the ITN guidelines, see [[Wikipedia:In the news section on the Main Page/Candidates]] and [[Wikipedia:In the news section on the Main Page/Style]] [[User:Nil Einne|Nil Einne]] ([[User talk:Nil Einne|talk]]) 08:21, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
::Yeah, if you want that changing, it would be best to bring it up there. [[User:J Milburn|J Milburn]] ([[User talk:J Milburn|talk]]) 13:16, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

== The whole of main page not archived? ==

I see each section of the main page like FA, FP, DYK, ITN have there individual archives. But is the whole of main page not archived? DYK is updated every 6 hours. So for each day we should have minimum 4 versions of the main page. Is this done? --[[User:gppande|<span style='font-family:"Arial Black";color:white;background:red'>gp</span><span style='font-family:"Arial Black";color:black'>pande</span>]] [[User talk:gppande|«talk»]] 13:33, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
:No, there is no archive of the main page as a whole. People often say "whate did the main page look like at [time] on [date]', but there is no way I know of of setting all the templates to show the whole page, short of manually recreating it by viewing the template page histories, and placing them in a 'main page' copied from the main page history. That said, I don't really see any point in archiving the whole main page. [[User:J Milburn|J Milburn]] ([[User talk:J Milburn|talk]]) 13:38, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
:: As you pointed out - people remember the main page as of "date" and "time". This is true for all people - I guess. Because, when a thing is 'dynamic' people remember the 'snapshots' they want. I think, this alone justifies why main page as whole should be archived. --[[User:gppande|<span style='font-family:"Arial Black";color:white;background:red'>gp</span><span style='font-family:"Arial Black";color:black'>pande</span>]] [[User talk:gppande|«talk»]] 15:56, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Honestly, there is no reason that the main page as a whole should be archived. It would take a lot of work for little benefit, and the sections are archived individually. '''[[User:Firefoxman|ff]]<font color="darkgreen">[[User talk:Firefoxman|m]]</font>''' 16:02, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I agree with pande in some extend. In my opinion the history of every page should generate the look of templates as they were at that given time. So the problem would be in MediaWiki, not at en.wiki. This actually exists at www.archive.org --[[User:Steinninn|Steinn]][[User talk:Steinninn|inn]] 16:29, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

== '''DYK''' ==

Shouldn't DYK fall under trivia? Trivia sections are disencouraged, aren't they? [[User:Mm40|<span style="color:blue">''Me''</span>]] [[User talk:Mm40|<span style="color:orange">''what do u want?''</span>]] <sub><font color="green">[[User:Mm40/Signature|'''Your Hancock Please''']]</font></sub> 14:13, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
:If you think about it, everything is trivia. The FA is an extended version on one of the DYK's hooks. It's how information that's presented makes it ''not'' trivia. If information about one subject is presented in a bulleted form under one section that makes it trivial. --'''[[User:Howard the Duck|<font color="#0b60ad">Howard</font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Howard the Duck|<font color="black">the</font>]] [[User talk:Howard the Duck|<font color="#F47937">Duck</font>]]''' 14:28, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

:It's a bit of a stretch to call that "trivia." It's more like a miniature introduction, formatted to maximize interest.-[[User:Wafulz|Wafulz]] ([[User talk:Wafulz|talk]]) 16:07, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

{{tl|editprotected}}
In the section "Did you know..." under [[Sheenboro, Quebec]] there is a spacing error, "[[trading post]] onthe [[Ottawa River]]" - "onthe" is glueing together.
--[[User:Rudolf Pohl|Rudolf Pohl]] ([[User talk:Rudolf Pohl|talk]]) 10:14, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

:<s>This is likely to get a better and quicker response at [[WP:ERRORS]], I'll copy it there for you. Thanks for the report. [[User:Puchiko|Puchiko]] ([[User Talk:Puchiko|Talk]]-[[Special:Emailuser/Puchiko|email]]) 10:22, 22 April 2008 (UTC)</s>Oh, sorry already there. My bad. [[User:Puchiko|Puchiko]] ([[User Talk:Puchiko|Talk]]-[[Special:Emailuser/Puchiko|email]]) 10:23, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Revision as of 17:39, 22 April 2008

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