Talk:Melaghlin

This whole article is misinformed to the extreme. It was Máel Sechnaill mac Maíl Ruanaid, High king of Ireland, who captured and drowned (Annals of Ulster 845.8). The Niall who had been fighting against the Norse prior to Máel Sechnaill was his predecessor as high king Niall Caille mac Áeda, certainly not Niall of the Nine hostages! If I knew the correct procedures I would have nominated this article for deleetion. Finnrind 05:54, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies if the entry above seem uncivil, I do realise how misunderstandings like these can occur. Hopefully I have understood the procedures, if {{prod}} was wrong here please let me know. I have fixed all articles with the same misunderstanding Melaghlin/Máel Sechnaill mac Maíl Ruanaid, so that the only links to this article is to the surname Melaghlin. Finnrind 06:36, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Article

I have to agree with others; who is this article about? Melaghlin was a very common anglicised version of Máel Seachnaill, which was the name of several royal members of Clann Cholmáin of the southern Uí Néill. I came here looking for information about how the Ó Maoilsheachlainn/O'Melaghlin surname became so common in Westmeath. Were they all extirpated from southeast Meath, or is it a different family entirely? 86.42.95.215 08:47, 7 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sources

I'm quoting a rather long passage here, from Donnchadh Ó Corráin "Viking&Ireland PDF:

This Turges or Turgesius cuts a fine figure in the historiography. The general histories of Ireland in this period have various and contradictory accounts of his activities: that he arrived in Ireland in command of a great Viking fleet in 832 or 840, that he levied a danegeld, that he was overlord of the Vikings of Ireland and that Irish society fell to pieces under his tyranny, that he took possession of the monastery of Armagh and made himself abbot there, that he was a confirmed pagan and tried to replace christianity with the worship of Thor, that he took control of the Erne and the Shannon and installed his pagan wife Ota in Clonmacnoise where she gave oracles from the high altar as priestess, that he was a determined and able general and the founder of the first Viking state in western Europe. Finally, Mael Sechnaill captured him and drowned him in Lough Owel (Kendrick 1930, 5-6, 276-77; Brøndsted 1960, 57; Arbman 1961, 68-69; Jones 1968, 204-07). The only truth in this colourful narrative is that Mael Sechnaill took him and drowned him in Lough Owel in 845. The record of this event occurs in the main hand in the Annals of Ulster. Another entry occurs a little earlier in the same annal: ‘There was an encampment of the Foreigners on Lough Ree, and they plundered Connacht and Meath, and burned Clonmacnoise with its oratories, and Clonfert and Terryglass and Lorrha and other monasteries’. An interpolating hand glosses the word ‘Foreigners’ with ‘under Turges’. It is a reasonable inference that Turges was the leader (or a leader) of the Lough Ree fleet that was plundering Meath, and other places. Mael Sechnaill was king of Meath and it is likely that when he caught Turges, he did not take him far to drown him. Lough Owel is twenty miles from Lough Ree and even less from the navigable parts of the river Inny that flows into it. The association of Turges with the encampment of Lough Ree is plausible. Most of the rest derives from Cogad Gaedel re Gallaib, a piece of brilliant twelfth-century propaganda, glorifying Brian Boru, the victor at the battle of Clontarf, and written in support of the claims of his descendants to rule over Ireland and Viking Dublin (Todd 1867, 8-15 §§9-14).

I would presume that prof. Corrains assesments superseeds Thomas D'Arcy McGee when it comes to Irish medieval history. Finnrind 23:43, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If I find the time I will make corrections in Turgesius (with references), but since this is an article I believe should not excist I will not edit it. The point is, D'Arcy McGee is not a very reliable source here, and the annals and their modern interpreters (Corrain) as well as not so modern interpreters as Geoffrey Keating(!) all agree that it was Mael Sechnaill who killed Turgesius. That D'Arcy McGee got this one wrong is supported bu the fact that Malachy is the most common anglisation of Mael Sechnaill. I'm asking for more reliable references to why this Melaghlin should have his own article in wikipedia, if there are local traditions or anything more substantial than a confusion of names I will not propose deletion. Finnrind 00:05, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies to D'Arcy McGee, he was not guilty of misunderstanding, after reading a bit further in his text I see that he was well aware of the identity between Mael Sechnaill and Melaghlin/Malachy, but uses anglified spelling (he calls Mael Sechnaills successor [Áed Finliath] Hugh). I'm waiting a little bit longer before proposing a merger, mainly because there is not much in this article that is not already more precisely expressed in Máel Sechnaill mac Maíl Ruanaid. Finnrind 13:17, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]