Talk:Naruto: Saikyou Ninja Daikesshu 4

This makes absolutely no sense. Why in the world would they skip the third one??

It doesn't matter. Maybe they viewed Ninja 4 as far superior?

Regardless, there is no evidence that Naruto 3 is Ninja Council 3, but the fact that Ninja Council 3 and Naruto 4 are the only Naruto sidescrolling games with 20 characters is evidence. - A Link to the Past (talk) 03:03, 4 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

.Theres is no proof this is the us version of ninja council 3 Leave it alone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Look at the reference section of the article. YES THERE IS. Stop removing the release date and american name and stop vandalizing the article. WikiLoco 19:30, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, I see the reference page, but there's nothing on that page that says that the Naruto Ninja Council 3 game in America is the NNC4 game in Japan. I think it's more likely that it's actually the NNC3 game in Japan. WP:RS Exceptional claims require exceptional sources. We don't have exceptional sources, so the exceptional claim will be reverted unless we can get better sourcing. McKay 22:01, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

IGN thinks that NNC3 is SND3: [1] McKay 18:28, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Leave the page alone, theres no proof that this is ninja council 3

Why would the gaming companys pass up a chance to earn thousands of dollars from the sale of Ninja Council 3?

Not Ninja Council 3

Naruto: Ninja Council took almost three years to come out in America after its Japanese release.
Naruto: Ninja Council 2 took about 2 1/2 years to come out in America after its Japanese release.
saying that NNC3 is SND3 is implying that it will take 2 years to come out in America. Is that too hard to believe? No!
saying that NNC3 is SND4 is implying that it will take 1 year to come out in America. Is that too hard to believe? YES!
Why do I say that? Let's take a look at the Naruto Release History.
Take a look at the next episode to come out in america: Third Hokage, Forever... The japanese release was 3 years ago! Episode 80.
When SND3 came out in japan, they were on about episode 130. They were twice as far along into the story as we are now. going further would take an exceptional source.
Right now, we are 3 years behind the Japanese in Naruto Episodes. Jumping up to SND4 is unrealistic.

McKay 20:52, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It´s the character count/Screenshots. All signs point to 4. Stop reverting changes. - !Malomeat 01:29, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Can you link me with exceptionally reliable sources what you mean by that? All I've seen is a link to IGN screenshots that show that IGN thinks NNC3 is SND3. We'll need to see exceptional sources. McKay 14:33, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Some have said that User:TITROTU proved that they were the same. I see no edits by him on this talk page, and no edits with an edit summary on the main page. I'm reverting again. Exceptional claims require exceptional sources. McKay 21:13, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

stop removing the US info

Take a good look at TITROTU's edit. It includes the friggin' box art. If YOU don't like the fact that this is Ninja Council 3, that is YOUR problem and YOUR problem only. Now STOP CHANGING IT.

Discussion ends here. WikiManiac64 21:57, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

First, thanks for bringing this to the talk page. But No, the discussion does not end there. The box arts are somewhat similar, but that doesn't prove anything. Sure, one could guess that they might be the same, but doing so would be original research, and that's something that isn't allowed on Wikipedia. I've made statements above, that shows that saying SND4 is NNC3 is an Exceptional Claim. And Exceptional Claims require Exceptional Sources. We do not have an exceptional source. So the old content must remain as is. If you have more information than just a box art, you should bring it forward. Also, please refrain from using profane language. McKay 23:01, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Narutonc3cover.jpg
I'm going by the box art and the fact that many users on Gamefaqs think NNC3 is indeed SND4. TITROTU 01:13, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

While I think it's nice, neither of those are reliable enough to base this article on. We need reliable sources. McKay 14:54, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, Gamespot has screenshots of the 4th game listed under 3´s title, while IGN shows screenshots for 3 and 4. The described NC3 also has characters SND3 does not (see Killer Betties interview. - !Malomeat 22:51, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, the screenshots from Gamespot that you linked don't have SND4 anywhere about them. So we can't even make a weak inference from that. What we do have is their page about NNC3, that has images of the SND3 box art. So Gamespot also thinks that NNC3 is SND3. So now we've got two sources (gamespot and IGN) that say that NNC3 is SND3 without any original research. Oh, maybe I should look at the next two links. Hmm, there is nothing that says SND4 on them, but I haven't actually played either (neither have been released in the US as of yet), but I do se the difference in the two images. I think it's possible that they could be coming from the same game, but I'll admit it's unlikely. What I think is more likely is that the snd4 image just got put in by mistake. Hmm, maybe I'll go through all of the images: For clarity, I'm going to call them by the numbering scheme that you've gone by:

Image 1 SND4
2-10 inconclusive using this scheme
Image 11 SND4
Image 12-13 SND3
14 inconclusive, but it does look a lot like 15
15-17 SND3
18 Certainly SND3, as it's got the big "3" on it. It's the title screen.
19 inconclusive
20 SND3
21 Inconclusive
22 like 14, it looks like 15
23-25 SND3
24 inconclusive, but it looks like SND3 from all these screenshots I've seen.
25-28 SND3
29 Inconclusive
30-33 SND3
34 Inconclusive
35 same as 24
36 kinda like 24
37-38 Uhh, I don't think these look like either SND3 or SND4.
39 Inconclusive.

So what I think is that according to these screenshots, NNC3 is SND3, and that a couple of images from another game got in there by mistake. Sure you can call that far fetched, but it appears a little unreliable to me. If you notice, what I've done here (and what you've been doing here all along by looking at these screenshots and making a determination) is Original Research. Unless you can come up with Verifiable Reliable sources, the information doesn't belong in Wikipedia. I'm also going to stick with WP:REDFLAG. The content does not belong here. I personally don't think it will ever belong here, but one could think that it merely doesn't belong here yet.

One thing you could do, is hijack the Naruto Ninja Council 3 NNC3 page (not NNC3(US) like was tried earlier, though that could be a redirect to there.) and start putting content we know about NNC3 and put it there. Then when it's verifiable, one way or the other (or both?) we can merge and redirect. McKay 14:57, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, we're getting nowhere arguing back and forth, so I say we just wait until the game gets released and then put it in the appropriate article. TITROTU 18:28, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, all I'm asking is that we have something verifiable before we change the article. Waiting until release is fine by me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by mckaysalisbury (talk • contribs)

2 Points:

The Gamespot creenshot I linked was indeed from SND4
Gamespot has SND3´s box art for NNC3 because they were as caught of guard as we were.

There was a lot of confusion, because The Japanese titles were changed to the once presumed American titles, and nobody bothered to fix it. - !Malomeat 23:09, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, you could be right about NNC3 being SND4, but the fact of the matter remains, that we need Verifiable information that that is the case before we can add it to the wikipedia article. i.e. we don't want to add to the confusion. If someone comes to wikipedia, they won't just have some OR theory, they'll have nothing, and they'll have to make the conculsion themselves, and that's what this is all about ladies and gentelmen. That's one reason why the verifiability clause is so important. We need WP to contain accurate information. McKay 07:24, 24 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Trailer

A new trailer has been released on Game Trailers. [2] Are we now able to tell if this game is SND4 or not? (I've never played it, so I wouldn't know) TITROTU 20:02, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Now there is no doubt in my mind that this is 4. The changes will be made. - !Malomeat 01:03, 27 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Reverted. See below. McKay 17:52, 27 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

New Screens

Guys, check out gamespot for the new screens of Ninja Council 3. US version of ninja council 3=ninja council 4. I'll be the first to admit that I was wrongShariganwarrior

While I agree that NNC3 looks a lot like SND4, Wikipedia is based strongly on a principle of Attribution. We can't say that SND4 is NNC3. Doing so is WP:OR. This is not an issue of what the truth is, this is an issue of verifiability. McKay 17:52, 27 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sources were never a problem. Neither was research. This has gotten ridiculous. Now it´s just you alone reverting edits. Everybody knows 3 was skipped. The trailer even shows it. Give up already. - !Malomeat 00:52, 28 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

sources were always the problem. I've been asking for sources and attributability and No OR the whole time. McKay 17:44, 28 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Move

As per MOS, this article should be moved to the NNC3 page. but how should everything work now, with SND3 being a different game from NNC3? Like the template... McKay 17:55, 28 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Because you have proof of this game not being Ninja Council 3? I'm sorry, but you are not moving this article. You can't tell people that calling this article Ninja Council 3 fails basic policy because we cannot plainly source that the fourth game is the one coming to the US even though looking at a screenshot of the English game and the Japanese third game shows definitively that they are different games, and then say we should assume that because there's a 3 in the name, that is is the third game released in Japan. Any third party observer can clearly ascertain that this is not the third game based on comparing images. - A Link to the Past (talk) 21:12, 29 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I think you misunderstand my position on the matter, but I see where you're coming from. We have the official screenshots, and the trailer, and we have sources that say that NNC3 is SND4. Is the source reliable? Maybe not. But I very much felt like the minority, and technically, WP policy says that we should say that NNC3 is SND4, though the reliability of the single source that I've seen is definitely questionable. But we need to follow the WP:MoS. I see three options:

Revert the page back to removing all notifications of this being NNC3, because we don't have enough verifiability. This will anger some people and the edit war will likely continue. More personal attacks against me will continue.
Admit that NNC3 really is SND4, so we (according to the WP:MOS) move this page to NNC3 as that's the title of the English release of the game. SND3 would still remain, SND4 would be a redirect to NNC3, and this article (which would be NNC3) would say something like "NNC3 (SND4 in the Japan) is a game about Naurto." Even better would be find more verifiable sources now, and then persue this course.
Give in to the whiners, to avoid an edit war, but avoid potentially unecessary work until more validity comes. We have people constantly complaining that NNC3 is SND4, so this article has been changed back and forth between saying it is or isn't NNC3. They've got a source, so let them have their way, but hold off on moving the article until we have better verifiability on this fact (in case we change it).

I'm okay with any of these options, but the third option isn't my favorite. I'll live with any of them, but I'm sick and tired of this edit war, and we need to have a consensus on what is going to occur. McKay 21:36, 29 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a reason you are arguing this? I do believe it has been affirmatively shown that NNC3 = NSND3 = reality violator. - A Link to the Past (talk) 23:22, 29 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Obviously you're not understanding me. I believe that NNC3 is NSND4. This is not the question I'm asking. Please reread my last post. I merely have a question with the WP:MoS and WP:A. McKay 04:54, 30 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I misread your statement, thinking it was "SND3 should be NNC3". - A Link to the Past (talk) 23:23, 30 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, so now that we're on the same page, where do we go from here with regard to this question? McKay 15:13, 2 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Stupid

how are they gonna put the picture for the 3rd one and this is the fourth one and how does the fourth one come out before the third —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.255.203.51 (talk) 01:10, 11 April 2007 (UTC).[reply]

The current consensus is that Naruto Ninja Council 3 is going to be SND4. Which implies that they're probably skipping SND3 in the US. what to do next is a question asked in the previous section: #Move McKay 14:42, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sources

Please don't get me wrong here, I think that NNC3 will be SND4, but right now we've only got one reference on that fact, and the reliability of that source isn't the best. Can we get a better source on that. I've a few things I'd like to do, but I'd like to wait until it's better sourced. McKay 15:05, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, Gamefaqs seems to think that NNC3 is SND3 [3] Gah, can we get more reliable sources on which game NNC3 is really? McKay 15:13, 22 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, IGN seems to think that NNC3 is SND3 (and SND2) [4]. Evidence that it's really SND4 is diminishing, can we get more sources, before I make a radical change to the article? McKay 15:49, 22 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sound 4 Playable in NA

In an Email I just got from Viz and Jump, there is a screen that shows Sakon is playable. It is low quality but not edited in any way.

Also Siliconera confirmed that all of the Sound 4 are playable., though they have been stripped of their moves. So If anyone wants to change the page(I am still ignorant as to how to do things) ryne11 13:25, 22 May 2007

Recommended Section

May I recomend adding a section to this article called "Changes in US version" explaining what was removed?70.83.177.152 16:16, 27 May 2007 (UTC)Your Friendly Neighburhood Naruto[reply]

We can simply add that to the US section we already have, but I'm not necessarily against the idea of adding a subsection under the US release info for the changes made. I'm okay with whatever works best. I put in my opinion, and I'll leave the final decision-making to the rest of the community. // DecaimientoPoético 18:29, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think my vote now is that NNC3 should be its own article, It's kinda a merge between SND3 and SND4, and we don't have any great reliable sources saying it's one or the other. McKay 20:24, 29 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, so a page for Saikyou Ninja Daikesshu 3, Saikyou Ninja Daikesshu 4, and Ninja Council 3? It might cause some problems with the infobox, but it's a small problem that can be worked out in a few minutes. I say we give your idea a shot and see how it goes. // DecaimientoPoético 20:32, 29 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Is this okay? // DecaimientoPoético 20:47, 29 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

For Heaven's sakes, merge.

We don't need to provide a source if we can strongly show to editors that NC3 is SND4. Screenshots, facts, and boxarts state that it is SND4. - A Link to the Past (talk) 17:51, 16 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, given the current evidence, I'm in support of a merge. McKay 19:07, 16 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]