Talk:Never again/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: CaroleHenson (talk · contribs) 07:53, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, it would be my honor to review this article. My approach is to review each section, make minor edits as I go (links, punctuation, etc.) to save us both time, and then evaluate the article against the GA criteria. Feel free to edit any changes you disagree with. I will start on it in the morning.–CaroleHenson (talk) 07:53, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Buidhe, I probably won't be able to do much on this until tonight. Just as an FYI.–CaroleHenson (talk) 18:07, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No problem, there's no deadline! b uidhe 18:13, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Introduction

The content in the introduction is good.
It would be better to have a bit more summary information, like a bit about the origins / first use, UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights, popularization by Meir Kahane, etc. — so that the introduction has two paragraphs.–CaroleHenson (talk) 16:57, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the updates to the intro.–CaroleHenson (talk) 16:19, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Origins

This book has a chapter on [1] the Masada poem with the line "Never again shall Masada fall". There is information about the historic and political background, meaning, perception, Masada representing Zion, etc.
I think two or so sentences will helps set the historical context and lead into the Holocaust discussion in the next sentence. (i.e., how do we manage all acts of suppression, discrimination and exile leading up to the pinnacle of evil, genocide?)–CaroleHenson (talk) 17:36, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent, looks good, thanks!–CaroleHenson (talk) 16:20, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding In postwar Israel, the behavior of Jews during the Holocaust was unfavorably contrasted with the behavior of the defenders of Masada.[1][2] - could you expand on that a little. In what way was their behavior unfavorable?
- Done

Excellent, looks good!–CaroleHenson (talk) 23:11, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I added a link to Israel#After World War II for post-war Israel
Great job on the second paragraph.
In the last sentence, can you add a few words about the way that "never again" was used or its significance in It was used on Israeli kibbutzim by the end of the 1940s, and was used in the Swedish documentary Mein Kampf in 1961.[9]–CaroleHenson (talk) 16:32, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Sadly all the source says is "The phrase was used in secular kibbutzim there in the late 1940s; it was used in a Swedish documentary on the Holocaust in 1961." and I cannot find more information.

Gotcha! Thanks for checking.–CaroleHenson (talk) 23:10, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Definition

I changed the quotations marks within a quotation to single quotes.
This section looks good.–CaroleHenson (talk) 16:38, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Contemporary usage

I moved one sentence here so that there are examples following that sentence — and a few sentences here to bring home the improper use of "never again" without action to back it up. How are those changes?–CaroleHenson (talk) 16:50, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I have no objection. b uidhe 22:56, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Other uses

After Nunca más, I added (never more).–CaroleHenson (talk) 16:55, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Just a thought

I wonder if it would be good to have a Popular culture section about anti-genocide poems, songs, books, film, etc. that may have been created with "Never again" as its theme - perhaps something from this query
Another thought is if there are any more examples of organizations that fight to end genocide perhaps something from [2], or books, etc. - like these books [3]

–CaroleHenson (talk) 17:18, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, in my experience "popular culture" sections tend to be a magnet for original research and should usually be avoided. The number of works which use the phrase would be very long, and primary source uses of the quote by politicians and such without analysis would be a very long, indiscrimate list, which would be better suited for wikiquote. It doesn't help that the phrase is invoked in a wide variety of contexts which are not necesarily related or even referencing the use as discussed by RS (see image).

This article is about the phrase, we have a separate article prevention of genocide which covers the organizations whose mission is preventing genocide. b uidhe 23:01, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. Makes sense.–CaroleHenson (talk) 23:14, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

GA criteria

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

Comments

The article is very well-written, conforms to MOS guidelines, with properly formatted citations to reliable sources. There is no evidence of original research. (1a, 1b, 2a, 2b, 2c.)

Please disambiguate Frontline in citation #7.

The copyvio report identified quotations and titles of organizations. (2d)
The article covers the major aspects without going into to much detail. (3a, 3b)

There are a couple of places where I have suggested the addition of a bit of clarifying information. I also thought it might be nice to have a Popular culture section and a section about ways in which people have wrote about ending genocide or organizations that were established to never again have acts of genocide.

The article is neutral and stable. (4, 5)
The images in the article are properly tagged, relevant, and with proper citations. (6a, 6b)

–CaroleHenson (talk) 17:35, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your edits. Looks good and passes as a good article!–CaroleHenson (talk) 23:15, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]