Talk:When Marnie Was There

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Synopsis (Story) vandalism[edit]

I wrote the synopsis myself, based on having seen the movie in theaters three times. Do not falsely claim it as "non-free content" or remove it, as this constitutes vandalism and will be reported.Jmaeshawn (talk) 21:33, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

"Based on having seen the movie in theaters" you say? This is your own word - "Replaced the summary of the original book with my own translation of the movie's official summary". 95.37.29.228 (talk) 00:47, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
PS And yes, i know japanese enough to compare "There is a magical circle in this world that no one can see. There are those who are in the circle, and those on the outside. I'm on the outside." and "この世には目に見えない魔法の輪がある。輪には内側と外側があって、私は外側の人間。" from official summary. This is simle translation. 95.37.122.196 (talk) 01:00, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

That line, "この世には目に見えない魔法の輪がある。輪には内側と外側があって、私は外側の人間。" happens to be a direct quote of the first line of the movie, and is important to understand the character of Anna. Since I have now seen the movie a total of 7 times, I can now write an extra-long, detailed version since you seem to prefer that over my summarized, spoiler-free version. But that line stays as small quotes, when used for the purposes of commentary, count as fair use. And I still don't appreciate your vandalism of my work, as I'm only trying to help people who aren't lucky enough to live in Japan and understand Japanese to know what the movie is about because the movie is unlikely to be released outside of Japan for at least a year.Jmaeshawn (talk) 13:12, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

"Known in Japan"[edit]

The phrase "Known in Japan as..." occurs all over the place, but always seems to me to be wrong. To an English speaker in Japan the film is (probably!) known by its English title; this is really the title in Japanese. After all, omoide is a Japanese word. But in Japanese the name of Marnie is Mānī, not 'Marnie' (however that would be pronounced, if it were Japanese). Is there any good reason we cannot simply say "Japanese title [...], literally... "? Imaginatorium (talk) 15:06, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

It's not a 'good reason' per say, but the way the title is currently formatted is Wikipedia standard for Anime-related articles, which is why you'll see it worded that way on almost all Japanese anime pages, and why it should remain as-is for consistency. Also, as a native English speaker in Japan, we do call it "Omoide no Marnie" through the use of code-switching when speaking to other English speakers in Japan because pronouncing it as Mānī when speaking English is annoying to say and sounds unnatural.180.53.6.40 (talk) 20:48, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

Plot Length[edit]

The current plot section is 2319 words long. The Wikipedia Manual of Style for Films states that plot section should be between 400 and 700 words. Please can someone trim the current plot down to the correct size? Thanks. David Bailey (talk) 20:20, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

If you want it to be shorter, that's fine, but please let me shorten it myself. I'm almost certain no other English speaker has seen this movie as often as I have (8 times) to know what details are important and which are not. And I'm also pretty sure according to that Wikipedia Manual of Style for Films you linked to, the "dream immersions" Anna sees on a frequent basis as well as the flashbacks to the past make it somewhat difficult to fully understand the plot, and means that the plot section requires additional explanation to explain the somewhat non-linearity they cause.Jmaeshawn (talk) 22:40, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
That's OK Jmaeshawn. Take your time over it. I had a similar problem when writing the plot section for Ocean Waves. My first draft was twice the length of the one that's there now. I took me a while to slim it down, but constantly re-reading and revising sentences eventually yielded results. Look at your use of language; trim flowery metaphor and unnecessary detail; don't use five words where two will do; and move information about the characters from the plot section to a new Characters (Cast) section.
For example, consider your sentence "In order to help Anna, Yoriko decides it's best to put her on a train and send her away from the polluted air of her home city of Sapporo, to a small village on the shores of northern Hokkaido and have her stay with her relatives, Kiyomasa and Setsu for the summer." (52 words). This could be re-written as "To help Anna, Yoriko decides to send her from the polluted city of Sapporo to a coastal village in northern Hokkaido, to stay with her relatives, Kiyomasa and Setsu, for the summer." (32 words). David Bailey (talk) 13:21, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Edits reverted without adding summary[edit]

It has already happened twice that my edits have been reverted without including a rationale in the summary. More specifically, my adding of the official North American website (first edit (reverted by user OttonielWhite), second edit (reverted by IP user 186.7.250.238)) and the organization of the cast in a table format (link to edit, also reverted by IP user 186.7.250.238)).

The first time, I assumed it was frowned upon to include a Template:Facebook link and the edit was reversed on this basis. Now, I'm suspecting someone is actively preventing other users from editing the article. Specially, when the table I included follows the exact same format the ones included in other Ghibli movie articles like The Wind Rises and The Tale of the Princess Kaguya, has adequate sources, and does not omit previously included information. I would like to know what can be done to avoid edit wars in this article. Thoughts? Jotamide (talk) 18:36, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

OttonielWhite is currently blocked for having repeatedly reverted editors like you without any edit summaries, and then not responding to queries about their editing. They were previously blocked for the same issue under the username Elindiord, and then began using sockpuppets (see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/OttonielWhite). In all likelihood, they are once again evading their block by editing while logged out. I would encourage you to file a new report at SPI to report this behavior. Conifer (talk) 21:45, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
I started experiencing internet problems soon after I reverted the table which didn't let up until this morning. First, tables to list the cast is not a standard practice, and I consider them unsightly in this case. I was about to reformat and consolidate the VA sections, but said internet problems prevented me from pushing the updates. I'll try to get to that later this morning. —Farix (t | c) 11:39, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
First of all, thanks for dropping by and explain the resoning behind the reverts. Now, you say that in your personal opinion you consider tables unsightly. However, the third bullet point on WP:FILMCAST states clearly:

Tables are also recommended to display different casts, such as a Japanese-language voice cast and an English-language voice cast in a Japanese animated film.

So while a simple bulleted list is enough for most film articles, for Japanese animated films, the dubbing work damatically changes the performace from one language to the other. Therefore, presenting the cast information in a table is not only allowed but encouraged in order to easily compare voice actors from one language to the other. Based on the guidelines from WP:FILMCAST I'm afraid I will have to revert your edits and re-instate my version. As a final word: may I suggest looking at tables for casts of other animated films such as Summer Wars? Here, information is not only presented neatly, but also in a very informative way. I hope we can work together to bring this (and other Ghibli film) articles to this level of polish. :) Jotamide (talk) 15:51, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
It's stylistic - Wikipedia does not have a mandatory or required format. All things should be based on the individual needs and development should be natural and effective with the flow of an article. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 04:09, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
@ChrisGualtieri: While it is a stylistic thing, the various MOS pages are there to be followed, and if you deviate from what is in the MOS, be prepared to have a good reason to back up that deviation. (@TheFarix: Thinking the tables are "unsightly" is not a valid reason to revert someone who was following established guidelines meant to create a consistent look and feel from one article to the next. The table should not have been reverted in this instance. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 21:33, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
Personally, I think tables are hard things to make look nice, especially when you consider different people use different browsers and have different screen sizes. I think this is what MOS means when it says Use tables with care due to their complexity. Most lists of anime characters with actors tend to look like (just picking one at random, no other reason) Haibane Renmei#Characters. That said, I'm not convinced it's worth too much angst to debate between the two formats. If one format has a clear advantage, be bold. --Unready (talk) 21:43, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

Literal translation[edit]

@121.54.32.161 and Nihonjoe: There has been some to-and-fro on this. Here's how I see it:

  • "Marnie of memories" is not really coherent English.
  • "Memories of Marnie" is not really a literal translation.

The head of the Japanese noun phrase is unambiguously "Marnie", qualified by being the Marnie of someone's memory/ies. I guess this essentially means the first person, (protagonist, narrator, whatever) so I inserted a square-bracketed "my". If someone thinks a different possessive pronoun is more appropriate, I'm open to that. Comments please. Imaginatorium (talk) 09:27, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

    • There's been no "to-and-fro" on my end. I simply reverted the incorrect edit by someone who doesn't know both English and Japanese well enough to attempt translation. If you want an absolutely literal translation, "The Marnie of My Memories" is about as close as you will get in English. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 20:37, 29 December 2015 (UTC)