Talk:Pravarasena II/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: TrangaBellam (talk · contribs) 10:49, 25 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

I am reading the article. TrangaBellam (talk) 10:49, 25 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

R. C. Majumdar and Anant Sadashiv Altekar were pioneer historians of India but belonging to the nationalist school. Their methods, observations, and conclusions have been significantly critiqued by the Marxist, Subaltern, and Postmodern schools of historiography across the last few decades. I find this article to be overtly dependent on their publications, and need to check recent historians.

R.C. Majumdar was not the author of any work cited in this article. He was just the general editor of two books cited in the reference section, namely The Classical Age (part of the series History and Culture of the Indian People) and The Vakataka-Gupta Age (part of the series New History of the Indian People). The actual authors of the sections used in writing this article were A.S. Altekar and D.C. Sircar, as indicated in the references. Regarding Altekar, I don't see how the "school" he belonged to is relevant, since I used his publications only for simple factual statements and not for interpretations. The one exception would be the sentence regarding Shaivite and Vaishnavite divisions in the final paragraph, but even in that paragraph I provided an alternate viewpoint by D.C. Sircar, and did not pass off Altekar's viewpoint as objective fact. If you believe that any statements in this article are tenuous, controversial, or need backing from more recent sources, then please be more specific so I can improve the article accordingly. Thank you. Bangaru Yachama Nayudu (talk) 01:19, 3 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Bakker, Shastri, Mirashi and U. Singh are fine.

May-be, use these sources too?

Bakker, Hans (2019-08-02). "A Theatre of Broken Dreams: Vidiśā in the days of Gupta Hegemony". Holy Ground: Where Art and Text Meet. Gonda Indological Studies. Brill. doi:10.1163/9789004412071_015. ISBN 978-90-04-41207-1.
Bakker, Hans (2004). The Vākāṭaka Heritage: Indian Culture at the Crossroads. Egbert Forsten. ISBN 978-90-6980-148-3.
Bakker, Hans, ed. (2008). Mansar - The Discovery of Pravaresvara and Pravarapura Temple and Residence of the Vakataka King Pravarasena II. Library of the University of Groningen. doi:10.11588/xarep.00001400. ISBN 978-90-367-3688-6.

Setubandha is a Prakrit Kāvya of 15 cantos.^[1]^[2] Why use 'work'?

Upinder Singh calls it a "work" in the cited source. In English, the word "work" can be used generally to mean "something produced by the exercise of creative talent or expenditure of creative effort" (Merriam-Webster). But I edited "work" to "poem" anyway to avoid any confusion. Thank you. Bangaru Yachama Nayudu (talk) 01:19, 3 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The chronology is not established beyond doubt.^[3] Our article does not form such impressions on a reader.

I have added a section on chronology. Thank you. Bangaru Yachama Nayudu (talk) 01:19, 3 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

He has been often confused with the Kashmriri (likely Huna) counterpart.^[4] Probably deserves a mention?

There is already a link to that Pravarasena at the beginning of the article. I edited the link to make it more clear that it is referring to the king who ruled in the area around Kashmir. Thank you. Bangaru Yachama Nayudu (talk) 01:19, 3 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Fix the citations.

What do you mean by this, TrangaBellam? As in, are they inconsistent, or this echoing your previous issue that it is not WP:NPOV? Urve 11:22, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

WP:CITESHORT shall be employed. TrangaBellam (talk) 12:14, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Consistent citation styles are not required by the GA criteria. It would help the article but is not necessary to pass/fail it. JSYK. Urve 12:20, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, I have modified the bibliography of the article as per the recommendations. TrangaBellam, please complete the review of the article as all recommended actions have been taken. Thank you. Bangaru Yachama Nayudu (talk) 15:31, 26 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@TrangaBellam: please conclude this review with either a pass or fail, thank you. Bangaru Yachama Nayudu (talk) 20:17, 10 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I am back to this review. Sorry for the delay.. TrangaBellam (talk) 04:35, 4 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Specific issues

Will appreciate an expansion of lead. MOS:LEADLENGTH.
In the chronology section, you write The only record that provides a firm chronological basis for Vakataka dynastic history...

Does the absence of calendar era permeate across all branches of the Vakatakas? Reading the first line, it seemed that the issue was exclusive to PII!
I will appreciate more clarity.

Due to the absence of any earlier records that can be precisely dated, different historians have proposed differing dates for Pravarasena's reign is redundant to The precise dates of Pravarasena's reign are not known, because all of Pravarasena's surviving records are simply dated in terms of regnal years rather than a calendar era.

I have edited the latter line. Please remove the former.

Can you detail (in short; a line or two to each) about how the four scholars (Shastri/Bakker/Kulke/Spink) reached the different dates?
I will appreciate a section on sources. See Karkota_Dynasty#Sources, written by me.

What was the language used in the charters? What about the content of Tripuri inscription?
Lines like The largest number of Vakataka inscriptions belong to Pravarasena's reign. shall be moved there.

Many lines are (apparently) not sourced. WP:INLINECITE.
I will appreciate that subsections are created in the "Overview" section.

One on the territorial extents. (Maybe add a map?) One on wars. And, so on.

If the older tradition of the Vakatas were aligned with Shaivism when and why did they shift course? I will appreciate some details.
I am unsure about what Pravarasena made a grant for the spiritual welfare is supposed to mean.

References

^ Rao, Ajay K. (29 October 2014). "Double Reading". Re-Figuring the Ramayana As Theology : A History of Reception in Premodern India. Routledge. p. 66. ISBN 9780415687515.
^ Bubenik, Vit (15 October 1998). "Historical, Social, and Linguistic Background". Historical Syntax of Late Middle Indo-Aryan (Apabhraṃśa). John Benjamins. pp. 23–24. ISBN 9789027236708.
^ Spink, Walter M. (2011). "A Revised Vakataka Chronology". Ajanta: History and Development - The End of the Golden Age. Handbook of Oriental Studies II. Brill. p. 166. doi:10.1163/9789004412071_015. ISBN 978-90-04-14832-1.
^ Pollock, Sheldon (19 May 2003). "Sanskrit Literary Culture from the Inside Out". In Pollock, Sheldon (ed.). Literary Cultures in History: Reconstructions from South Asia. University of California Press. p. 70. doi:10.1525/j.ctt1ppqxk.9. ISBN 978-0-520-92673-8.

Status query

Bangaru Yachama Nayudu, TrangaBellam, what is the status of this review? As far as I can see, Bangaru Yachama Nayudu has not edited the article since the "Specific issues" section of the review was added on September 4; indeed, they have not edited on Wikipedia at all since mid-August. Under the circumstances, it may be time to close this review as unsuccessful. BlueMoonset (talk) 23:12, 6 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

BlueMoonset, I offer no opposition to a close. TrangaBellam (talk) 06:14, 10 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

TrangaBellam, as reviewer, please go ahead and close it (see Wikipedia:Good article nominations/Instructions#Failing). Or I can do it if you'd prefer. BlueMoonset (talk) 17:37, 10 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Having heard nothing further from TrangaBellam, despite significant activity elsewhere on Wikipedia, I am closing the GA nomination as unsuccessful. BlueMoonset (talk) 01:05, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Rao, Ajay K. (29 October 2014). "Double Reading". Re-Figuring the Ramayana As Theology : A History of Reception in Premodern India. Routledge. p. 66. ISBN 9780415687515.

[2] Bubenik, Vit (15 October 1998). "Historical, Social, and Linguistic Background". Historical Syntax of Late Middle Indo-Aryan (Apabhraṃśa). John Benjamins. pp. 23–24. ISBN 9789027236708.

[3] Spink, Walter M. (2011). "A Revised Vakataka Chronology". Ajanta: History and Development - The End of the Golden Age. Handbook of Oriental Studies II. Brill. p. 166. doi:10.1163/9789004412071_015. ISBN 978-90-04-14832-1.

[4] Pollock, Sheldon (19 May 2003). "Sanskrit Literary Culture from the Inside Out". In Pollock, Sheldon (ed.). Literary Cultures in History: Reconstructions from South Asia. University of California Press. p. 70. doi:10.1525/j.ctt1ppqxk.9. ISBN 978-0-520-92673-8.

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