Talk:Pub Philosophy

Deletion/Neologism

I've removed the call for deletion of this article on the basis that it's a neologism, which it isn't. I'm going to try to improve the article over the following weeks, however, because it's clearly inadequate as it stands. Having attended a number of different pub philosophy events I can attest that, although they're certainly a minority interest, they are an actual phenomenon and not something someone's made up. Helveticat (talk) 16:25, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

an event where people gather to discuss philosophical stuff is nothing new. that it is in a pub is nothing new, or exciting. "Pub Philosophy" is not a concept that is in any way distinguishable from non-pub philosophy; it is simply in a pub. an example of something similar: a "pool party" or "birthday party" are both gatherings that are a bit more specific than a simple party. yet, search for "pool party" in wiki and it brings you to "party". perhaps there is someplace else where this concept can fit better. the page for "coffeehouse" makes mention of philosophers, perhaps somewhere in the "pub" page? perhaps in the "Café_Philosophique" page? There's no doubt in my mind that this article will be submitted for an AfD discussion Vinithehat (talk) 17:12, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Pub philosophy is a distinct concept. It is notable for the attempt by its practitioners to get non-academics involved in doing philosophy, and I think generally understands itself to be a form of philosophy which says that a pub environment produces a particular form of philosophical dialogue - much as a Symposium (the original pub philosophy event?) produces a its own form of philosophical dialogue. It's more than doing a generic form of philosophy in one type of space - pub philosophy is notable, "bus stop philosophy" is, as yet, not.

I've summoned up a couple of sources which help: I'll try and get some more in if I get some time to search properly.

It certainly shares characteristics with Cafe Philo, and both are possibly national expressions of the same phenomenon. Cafe philo has an established wikipedia article and isn't damned neologism: la philosophie de la maison publique anyone? ManOnABus (talk) 20:07, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

How about editing the article to reflect this distinction rather than the bulk of the article plugging events and orgs? the opening line of the article itself is unconvincing. ""Pub Philosophy" is a term sometimes used to describe informal gatherings in public houses for philosophical discussion." this is not describing a concept; its describing "informal gatherings in public houses for philosophical discussion" - people chatting in a bar. Your input on the talk page surpasses the content of the article immensely. Vinithehat (talk) 20:23, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

My contribution here is simply to defend the concept. The talk of deletion puts me off putting any more time into the article itself: it's a long time since I edited a wikipedia entry and it seems easy to waste time on research only to get blitzed. Helveticat has expressed an interest in moving this forward - happy to help their effort if I can, or to add some more if the article has a chance of survival.ManOnABus (talk) 10:02, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

It's your contribution that will help it survive. Vinithehat (talk) 15:01, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Hi. I helped start a series of pub philosophy events in London in 1998. We did it in conscious imitation of the wave of Cafe Philo events which were sweeping France at the time, only adapted for cultural conditions in Britain (ie in a boozer). The launch was covered by Radio London. It wasn't quite the first pub philosophy, though - we later found that there had been regular philosophy meetings in a pub in Bristol for several years before that. Our events, linked to Philosophy Now magazine, came to an end in about 2000, but I still go to Kant's Cave philosophy events, which are also in a pub. To defend the concept of pub philosophy, and hence the existence of this article, I think you need to draw a distinction between (A) a bunch of folk chatting in the pub who in the course of the conversation touch on one of the great questions of philosophy - which has happened from time immemorial and doesn't deserve a Wikipedia article and (B) organised, scheduled philosophy events held in pubs which involve either a talk by a guest speaker (often an academic) or else a structured debate with a moderator. Pub philosophy (which is quite a widely used term now) refers to (B), not to (A). Anyone tempted to nominate this article for deletion, please consider going to one of the many pub philosophy events first before deciding whether the term refers to a real phenomenon or not! Rick Lewis Dodo64 (talk) 15:40, 9 December 2010 (UTC)