Talk:Punakha Dzong/GA1

GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Xtzou (Talk) 18:33, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

I am reviewing the article. Xtzou (Talk) 18:33, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

• Is the Dzong supposed to be capitalised? I notice that it is not throughout much of the article. Is that because you are referring to a dzong in a generic sense?
  • Yes. In naming. But if you generally refer to is as a dzong then I don't think it needs capitalisation. We have a similar system with monastery. You say the monastery was built in 1690 or something. But often say like Taglung Monastery was built in 1690 if you are referring to the name specifically Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 12:52, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
    • Also, noted.the clarification
• " Protection measures are still in progress as of 2010 to protect the dzong from future flooding damage by deepening the river channels and raising the embankments using four large steam shovels." Repetition: "protection measures" "to protect". Also, I could not find anything describing these measure in the reference given. http://www.probhutan.com/e_html/bruecke_Mochhu.htm
  • Yes, you are right. Corrected to remove reference to 2010 as this sentence was taken from the Punakha article.
• "salubrious climate" - could you use a more common work like "healthful"?
  • Yes, Agreed. Changed to “healthy climate”

History

• "On the basis of the dream vision of the architect, building of the Dzong was started in 1637 and completed in 1638." Is this a legend or is it being given as fact?
  • Changed to mean “According to legend”
• "The Wangchuk Monarchy, which is the present monarchy ruling the country, was established in 1907. In 1907, Punakha Dzong was the site of the coronation of Ugyen Wangchuck (or Deb Nagpo) as the first King of Bhutan." - Is there a better way of wording the date "1907" so that it not repeated so close together?
  • Yes. Corrected
• There are many short paragraphs. It would be better to combine some to help the fluidity of the section.
  • Yes. Done
• There is a "citation needed" tag there.
  • Citation added. There was an error in the year. Now rectified and sentence shortened

Architecture

• "It is the second oldest and most majestic dzong in Bhutan at the orders of Zhabdrung Ngawang Namgyal." - his orders did not make it the second oldest, did they?
  • Changed to mean built at the orders of Zhabdrung Ngawang Namgyal
• "It was built as a six storied structure with a central tower or Utse at an average elevation" - is it still a six-storied structure? If so, it could be phrased as "It is a six-storied structure"
  • Yes, it is still six storied. Done
• utse - could this be explained briefly?
  • “Utse” means: “The dzong’s central tower or the main tower” Reference cited
• This section also needs to have fewer short paragraphs to reduce the choppiness of the read.
  • Done now
• "After complete restoration of the Dzong to its old glory, notable images, statues and thangkas displayed in the Dzong include murals depicting life story of Buddha done during the rule of the second druk desi; large gilded statues of Buddha, Guru Rinpoche and Zhabdrung which belong to mid 18th century; and gilded panels on pillars." - there is something wrong with this sentence.
  • Simplified
• "In Machey Lakhang ('machey' lierally means "sacred embalmed body") in this courtyard," - this does not read quite right.
  • Corrected
• "In Machey Lakhang ('machey' lierally means "sacred embalmed body") in this courtyard, the embalmed body of Zhabdrung, who died in the Dzong is preserved. This Lakhang was rebuilt in 1995. The casket containing the embalmed body is not opened at all but the place is visited by the King and the Je Khenpo, apart from the two guards. Their visit to the place is mainly to seek blessings before assuming their offices." - this whole paragraph seems out of order.
  • Reworded

• Do you think there might be too many images in the article? Some of the pictures are very similar, if not almost identical.

Xtzou (Talk) 19:43, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

• • One picture in the article and pictures in the gallery removed.

Thanks for you comments. I agree with most of them although I don't see any identical images, I only see one similar looking image to the one in the infobox.. Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 12:21, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

These seem very similar: , , , . I know that it is very hard to remove pictures. But too many pictures become a distraction and make the text hard to read. Xtzou (Talk) 14:30, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

More comments

• "(meaning “the palace of great happiness or bliss”)" - what is this a quote from?
  • Reference added . Here the quote is a combination of two refrences
• "The Po Chu River is fed by glaciers in the Lunana region of the basin." - which basin is this?
  • It is Punakha valley. Corrected
• "zorig chusum tradition" - this quotes need a reference, as do all quotes.
  • Reference provided.

• Thanks for the fast and precise review. All observations have been noted and corrections done in the text article. Replies to each of the observations are also provided above. I hope it meets your acceptance. Please let me know if any more corrections or clarifications are needed. --Nvvchar (talk) 01:09, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

A few more comments

• "In view of the healthy climate in the region, Punakha was known as the winter capital of Bhutan." - Is it no longer known as this? To whom was it known? (what era)
  • It is no more the capital of Bhutan. However, it is still used during the winter by the abbot and monks of Bhutan. I have therefore changed the sentence to “is’ and also removed the word ‘known’
• "Another legend associated with the architectural conceptualization of the Dzong is that Zowe Palep, the architect, had a vision in a dream. The Zhamdrup Namgyal, who saw the site as prophesized by Guru Rinpoche, had ordered his architect to sleep under the statue in the small dzong at the site. According to the legend, the architect had a dream, prompted by the psychic powers of the Zhamdrup, in which he had a clear vision of the palace of Guru Rinpoche. Based on this vision imprinted in his mind, the architect conceived the plan for the Dzong (without putting the vision on paper) and built it." - Can this wording be improved? Also, this para could be combined with the previous one for a more fluid read. What is the "statue" being referred to?

Possible rewrite. Could it be something like this: Another legend tells how Zowe Palep, the architect, had a vision in a dream after the Zhamdrup Namgyal, who saw the site as prophesized by Guru Rinpoche, ordered him to sleep under the statue in the small dzong at the site. In his dream, prompted by the psychic powers of the Zhamdrup, he had a clear vision of a palace for Guru Rinpoche. The vision was imprinted on the architect's mind, enabling him to conceived the plan for the Dzong without putting the vision on paper and to built it.

• • The proposed rewrite is very fine. Thanks. I have changed the text accordingly.
• "In 1637, a small structure which contained an idol of the Buddha, known as Dzong Chug (small dzong), existed here." Is this the statue? This whole section needs to be rewritten in chronological order. It seems like there is a lot of repetition.
  • Changed to statue and I have also made changes in chronolgy order as suggested. I hope it is fine now.
• Also, I think the panoramic shot, as wonderful as it is, is just too much, especially with the pictures of the entrances and corridors.
  • I have deleted the panoramic img also. There is no space to fit it properly. If the double img is removed then probably the panoramic img could be reintroduced. I leave it your judgement.

Xtzou (Talk) 15:16, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

• • • Thanks for the further observations. They are pertinent. I have made the changes in the artcile, as suggested. My replies are given above.--Nvvchar (talk) 18:33, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
    • Please see my reply to your observation on winter capital.--Nvvchar (talk) 19:51, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

• • Dr Bloefld is the coauthor of this article. He wants the panoramic img retained since it is the best img in the article. I have deleted the double image now and shifted the wonderful panromic shot to the bottom of the section on architecture. I hope it meets your observations. Thanks.--Nvvchar (talk) 11:03, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

One last comment

The article looks quite nice now. One thing still needs addressing. The floods, fires, earthquakes and the cantilevered bridge are discussed in two different places, under Geography and under Architecture. All the mentions should be together in one place, probably under Architecture. Xtzou (Talk) 15:07, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Yes, a good change. As suggested, I have moved the text related to flash floods, fires and bridge to the architecture section and made slight chnages to maintain flow. I hope it is now OK.--Nvvchar (talk) 18:05, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Great! Thank you. Xtzou (Talk) 19:25, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose quality:

   B. MoS compliance:

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. References to sources:

   B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:

   C. No original research:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   B. Focused:

4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

   B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail: Pass!

Congratulations! A good article. Xtzou (Talk) 19:25, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

1. Thank you very much. It was a smooth exercise.--Nvvchar (talk) 21:06, 15 April 2010 (UTC)