Talk:Reading F.C. Under-23s and Academy

July 2013

The standard convention across football team articles using the fs player template, like the one used to display the under-21 squad on this page, is to list players by the squad number first and then alphabetically for those who do not yet have one.

The Reading website does not, with the exception of players called up for international games, state the nationality of the scholars on its website here. Whilst most are probably English there is no way of definitively knowing so they shouldn't be assigned a nationality based on guesswork. Scholars are also not given squad numbers, so without those two pieces of information the fs player template is not a very suitable display format. Using a customisable table also allows other information to be added that couldn't be displayed using the template.

Odd players under the age of 16 who are mentioned once in the local paper are not notable. The likelihood is that we won't hear about an eight year old like Zac Berry again for the best part of a decade if he does remain with the club. Listing every player mentioned leads to an excessive number of tables. Cheers T 88 R (talk) 17:05, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

What constitutes a "graduate"?

There seems to be a bit of a discrepancy here. Players who sign for the club aged 16 (so they haven't come through the body of the academy) are counted as "graduates". An example is Sigurdsson. Players who sign as second-year scholars like Long, Ji, Sweeney and Nam are not counted though. Players who left the club before the age of 16 (Wickham, Austin) are also counted as "graduates", even though they never "graduated".

Is the rule that those signed on professional contracts (like Long- so most 17 year olds) cannot be counted as "graduates", but those who sign on scholarship forms (like Sigurdsson) can? SCIAG (talk) 20:46, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Anyone who has spent time at the Academy, whether that is as a schoolboy, scholar or on a pro deal (like Tanner, Tshibola etc.), and gone on to play for the first-team is counted as a "graduate" in this article. That is the view the club seem to take as well with their list here.

They also include Long on that list but he was born in January 1987 and joined in June 2005 which would make him about 18 and a half when he joined. As he then turned 19 during the 2005–06 season that put him in the year group above the second year scholars which made him too old to play Academy games I think. I'm not 100% certain on the rules but I believe that the last year that players are available for Academy games is the season in which they turn 18. So this season for example someone like Samuel wouldn't have been able to play in the Academy games even though he was still 18 until April. That's why Long wasn't included in the article even though club claim him as a graduate. He was also playing for the first-team in the season he arrived so to call him an academy graduate is stretching it a bit I think.

People like Ji and Nam and others who left the club weren't included because only added a handful of the most well known examples were initially added. I hadn't intended the list to be exhaustive but another editor has since expanded it so it is now an incomplete list rather than just a few examples. Sweeney has never played for first-team so would not be included.

With regard to the the wording maybe the section containing players that have not played for Reading but went on to play elsewhere should have its own title instead of remaining under the graduates section. Something like "Youngsters who made it elsewhere" maybe? Cheers T 88 R (talk) 22:26, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Khaikin

Nikita Khaikin joined us permanently after a trial last July. I think he was a second year scholar last year so might be at the stage of becoming a young professional. As we've just signed Gogic I don't know if he's staying — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.7.139.4 (talk) 01:56, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Are you sure he signed? The first and last I heard of him was here He has never been mentioned by the official site and he isn't on the Premier League released and retained list here which he would have been if he was contracted to the club.

I have removed him for now, but if you can find a reliable source showing that he is contracted to the club feel free to add him back in. Cheers T 88 R (talk) 13:43, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Had Niall Keown confirm that he was with us until March. Has gone off to Portsmouth now. The other lad we had on trial has joined Rangers.

Ward / Southwood

I've added in Lewis Ward - England u16 goalkeeper and first year scholar (he's tweeted he's at the induction today). Apologies that I seem to have managed to mess up the date of birth and England u16 call up for him.

What are your rules on adding in younger than that? Lewis Southwood had an England call up last year, he was u15 goalkeeper. He may well link up with the u16 squad this year as a scholar but haven't got that confirmed. He'll probably be Ward's backup. I haven't added him in though.

Also, new batch of first year scholars to look forward to today!

Hi mate, yeah that would make sense, 1 July seems to be the date when new contracts start for everyone. I haven't got any rules and I apologise if it seemed like I was removing a lot of your additions but with people who are not involved in under-18 games I don't think it's worth adding them because I can't remember the official site ever reporting on under-16 games or below. However, if someone like Southwood who is still a schoolboy I assume but is going to be regularly involved in the under-18 squads, I see no harm in adding him to the academy table providing it can be referenced somehow.

Indeed, slight shame about Ikpeazu but from what I've read about him seems like he was a long way from first-team football. Interesting to see how he does with them, could end up being the next Nicholas Bignall! I'll fix the date now, it looks like you just have put GK instead of his DOB. Cheers T 88 R (talk) 11:13, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Harry Cardwell

First new scholar announced. Brought in from Hull.

Season 2013-14

After the success of last year should we get an Academy season Wiki page going? Try to get the profile raised and more info available?

Whilst it would be fun to do, it would definitely fail the notability guidelines. Not even world renowned academies like Manchester United or Barcelona have season articles. The best thing to do in my opinion is to add a small summary section to the end of the main Reading season article like this for 2012–13. Cheers T 88 R (talk) 18:11, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Nicholas Bignall

- never played for the first team!? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.25.109.196 (talk) 13:23, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

2013/14

You might find this of some use as it develops over the season

http://www.thetilehurstend.com/2013/6/28/4475540/player-contract-dates — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.162.250.42 (talk) 17:15, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Merge Proposal

I propose that Reading F.C. Under-18s and Academy be merged into Reading F.C. Under-21s and Academy, with the article also ideally renamed to Reading F.C. Under-23s and Academy or similar to reflect both aspects of its content.

The Under-23 side is one team within the academy setup. The fact that there are so many U-18 players on the U-23 squad list shows their close level of integration. Both have the Football academies in England category.

Both articles are also fairly weak in terms of external sources (othan referring to individual players) and a combined article would provide a stronger basis for demonstrating their notability for being retained in the encyclopedia. Recent discussions at WP:FOOTY have indicated that reserve and/or youth team articles which are unconvincing in terms of notability or verifiability may be considered for deletion - see here (or here if archived). I don't support any blanket removal of youth/reserve articles but I think one to cover the whole system for each club would show a more credible argument for being kept.

Merging the articles would also follow the more common model used in respect of English clubs - current exceptions being Southampton (1) (2), Charlton (1) / (2), West Ham (1) / (2), Spurs (1) / (2) and Arsenal (1) / (2) which will also have this merge suggestion applied. It would probably make it easier for interested editors to keep the current information updated if they are monitoring the same article rather than there being two articles containing overlapping information (WP:OVERLAP) being maintained separately.

PS I nominated one article to 'remain' and one to 'go' purely on the basis of which had existed longer. My intention was not to offend any editors by suggesting the article they created/maintain should be deleted due to being inferior to any other, just that I don't think any more than one article on this topic is necessary.Crowsus (talk) 11:03, 25 February 2017 (UTC)

I have also created a discussion on WP:FOOTY regarding these mergers here if anyone wants to make general points, counter-arguments etc. Thanks.Crowsus (talk) 13:35, 25 February 2017 (UTC)

Merge now done. Crowsus (talk) 22:01, 12 November 2017 (UTC)