Talk:Russian military intervention in Ukraine (2014–present)

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See also[edit]

I suggest to move navboxes "Ukrainian Crisis" and "Annexation of Crimea" into the "See also" section, because they are very far away down, but by common sense they are a "Must See Also" Staszek Lem (talk)


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Russian military intervention?[edit]

State clearly what you want changed, making your arguments cogently and concisely, based upon Wikpedia's policies and guidelines. --NeilN talk to me 21:13, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

i was accused to make an edit war, but the person, who deletes a neutral complain makes the edit war! the title of this article is not neutral! and it is even wrong! i post my fist edit at the bottom, but first i want to publish, what i answered to the accusation, now its on you, i wont accept, this diffarmation, so do what you have to do, if ban is the answer to a neutral complain, i can live with it.

"there are neutral facts and there are opinions. to call an article RUSSIAN intervention, when russians are not envolved in these actions or russia is involved in one part of a bigger event, where the main actors are ukrainian, is not right. this is PROPAGANDA! i dont mind, if i am blocked, but as a person with moral, i cannot accept such an infamous impartial hate campaign! it has to be written and discussed in the discuss section or wikipedia is shown one more time, that it is NOT a neutral project, but an influenced and in several part, several users are kidnapping the platform to spread impartial propaganda. if the reward for my neutral complain is a ban, i will take it and will sleep well, that i am not accepting such a behavior. why it is NOT to discussed whether the title is right or not?! i have not changed the title, but have written a complain in the DISCUSSION section, which is there to discuss, the correctness of the article and its title itself. of course scources are needed, but for the title there is no general scource to prove that it is wrong. but there is no scource, which justifies this title either. so the story is, that in fact there were russian troops, which occupied crimea, but there are no ordinary troops elsewhere in the conflict and even if there are, they are not the mayor and only actors in this war. so when you are so desperate, to name russia, than the other actor is ukraine, so it would be a russian-ukraine war, but this would be wrong also. you dont say american intervention in korea or chinese intervention in korea, it is the korean war or the vietnam war and not american intervention in vietnam. by mentioning these examples, you should recognise, that there is an imparity. and the question is, why some want to name it just like this, when it is NOT true. you can say its a proxy war, but not like this. it is outrageous! i am not payed by russia, i am not russian, i am not even editing russian articles and i am not even editing english articles, because my mother tongue is not english, so i am not interessted in impartial propaganda, but i was shocked, when i jumped, from the german site, which is absolutely neutral, to the english, which is making a crusade and hide behind rules, when one complains and remove evething immediatly, so it cannot even discussed, by those, who are native english speakers and could mention the same failures. its a shame. if wikipedia, because this is not the first intentional diffarmation, wants to continue this path, it will turn in to a propaganda instrument, which will fail on the long term. also, there is a main failure in the system. a consensus, doesnt mean, that something is objectively right. 5 people can have a concensus that the earth is flat and one can say is a sphere, that doesnt mean, the 5 are right!"— Preceding unsigned comment added by Dasuprmastr (talkcontribs) 13:12, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

my original complain was this:

"my complain about the objectivity of this article has been deleted, although, a discussion is needed, because, the article is wrong and impartial.

the reason for the delete was "It wasn't the Russian military taking over Crimea? Nothing impartial here"

ok is this article about crimea only?! because, ok than i could accept this argument, but crimea is only a part of this article which contains conflicts which cannot be called a military intervention of russia. the war in eastern ukraine, even if there are russians involved is a conflict, between ukrains. so, if this title stays, delete all the section about the war in eastern unkraine and call it russian intervention in crimea, ukraine and correct the dates, not 2014-present!— Preceding unsigned comment added by Dasuprmastr (talkcontribs) 14:27, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

i cannot believe, how partial this article is, even the title is an one-sided view on the these events.

if one looks at the german wiki article, the starting point is totally different, there is is called, war in ukraine and this would be an objective approach. later in the article you can discuss, what happend, which parties were involved, but this is an ongoing crisis or even an ongoing war. how can one even say especially in the title, that it was a russian agression? wiki is undercut by people, who want to force their pov on objective history, because of selfish, subjective reasons. the article is unacceptable! (i am not a russian!)" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dasuprmastr (talkcontribs) 16:36, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

The above seems to be a group of personal essays that state someones feelings about how frustrating it is editing Wikipedia. This is the wrong place for it. Wikipedia is not meant to be a forum or a soapbox. See Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not.-- Toddy1 (talk) 21:00, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
Please note that there are articles such as:
This may explain why there is an article on Russian military intervention in Ukraine (2014–present) in addition to the article on the Ukrainian crisis.-- Toddy1 (talk) 07:31, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
The article is based on fake news and propaganda warfare. WHAT RUSSIAN INTERVENTION? If Russia had intervened, Ukraine would have crumbled in weeks, and not because Russia is powerful but because Ukraine's military is crap AND at least a third of it at the time refused to follow orders, because the orders given were tantamount to ethnic cleansing and war crimes.
Were there incursions across the border? Yes, both intentional and not. From BOTH RUSSIA AND UKRAINE. Amazing how Russia simply sent Ukrainian soldiers back the day after, but when Russian soldiers were in Ukraine, it was worldwide headline news about the Russian aggression.
The Crimean referendum was more "constitutional" than what was considered a VALID excuse to break up Yugoslavia. And it was the 5th or 6th similar referendum in Crimea since 1991, due to Kiev regimes mistreating the region. Amazingly, every referendum voted heavily against Kiev, they mostly wanted federalisation so they could quit having Kiev harassing them and stealing their people's pensions(literally).
Neonazis took over in the coup. On the border of Russia, anyone actually stupid enough to think that will NOT generate any kind of reaction?
Russia annexed Crimea at the point where the neonazi Azov brigade were about to be "deployed" there, a unit that posted videos on youtube showing them beating up and killing people for the sole reason of having Russian as their primary language, something that is true for a BIG minority in Ukraine.
Then comes the unconditional assertion of a Russian incursion. Except the links claimed as sources does not actually show that. They show a lot of claims and rumour about it. Of the kind used by that US politician to claim Russia invaded Ukraine, and based it on pictures showing something completely different than claimed, and months before claimed.
"The Ukrainian military reported"? You mean the people that just got their asses smacked by civillians, some of which used old museum-tanks to do it? (Yes, you can find pictures of rebel units with T-34s among other old WWII vehicles, there was even a video online for a while where 2 guys did a "how to get an old museum tank back in shape in just a day.) The people so far shown to be about as truthful and reliable as Baghdad Bob? The people desperate to get outside support?
There were "forces" moving from Russia to Ukraine, oh certainly yes. Over a million Ukrainians fled from persecution and harassment to Russia, and at least a few percent of them only stayed long enough to get their family settled, then aquired whatever military hardware they could, and went back to fight for their homes.
Amazing, how those humanitarian convoys could be so shifty eh? Every damn time anyone inspected them(be it Ukrainians or 3rd party of some kind ), they were EXACTLY what Russia claimed them to be, yet somehow, they supposedly kept smuggling everything and the kitchen sink across the border all the time. Yeah that makes so much sense.
It doesn't even matter if everything was completely true, because the article is still severely biased. It's a great piece of propaganda, but it has little connection with reality. I'm considering adding the template. DW75 (talk) 11:27, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
"The article is based on fake news"
Name them.
-
"If Russia had intervened, Ukraine would have crumbled in weeks,"
In your dreams.
-
Why Strelkov is not imprisoned in Russia - is it legal for Russians to kill civilians in other countries? Under what laws Russian "humanitarian aid" cross the border? Why Russia does not respect the territorial integrity of Ukraine, as it promised in treaties Russia has signed?Constantinehuk (talk) 09:48, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
A question: how many gallons/tons/whatever, say water, have entered into world-wide circulation since Mr. Otto figured it out (being not the 1st one, I guess), that the signature, emphasis on „the“, is not worth the paper it is painted on (Brazilian rainforests were not "in", these times...)
As for Strelkov: it would be "not-Wikipedianistic" to wish him the same fate as it happened, say, to Valery[1]..., ...
And, finally, on neutrality: in democracy both poles are accepted, are they, so, is W-dia neutral, can it be? "neutrally democratic"?
And, just now added 3 more WIAs on Ukrainian side...— Pietadè 16:45, 2 February 2018 (UTC)Pietadè (talk) 13:53, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
  1. ^ a b Maria Tsvetkova (29 January 2018). "'Fog' of Ukraine's war - Russian's death in Syria sheds light on secret mission". Reuters. Retrieved 30 January 2018. 
"The article is based on fake news"
"Name them."
I do not see an answer.
-
"Why Strelkov is not imprisoned in Russia - is it legal for Russians to kill civilians in other countries?"
"As for Strelkov: it would be "not-Wikipedianistic" to wish him the same fate as it happened, say, to Valery[1]..."
I just ask. Please answer.
-
"And, finally, on neutrality: in democracy both poles are accepted, are they, so, is W-dia neutral, can it be? "neutrally democratic"?"
If 2+2=4, and you state that 2+2=9, should we agree that 2+2=7?
+
"Under what laws Russian "humanitarian aid" cross the border? Why Russia does not respect the territorial integrity of Ukraine, as it promised in treaties Russia has signed?"
Constantinehehe 08:51, 3 February 2018 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 4 external links on Russian military intervention in Ukraine (2014–present). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

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Change the title to Russian Invasion of Ukraine[edit]

Military intervention is a geopolitical weasel word. Russia invaded Crimea and stole the territory from Ukraine, and it's been well documented (and blatantly obvious to anyone who isn't a limbless capuchin) that Russia is backing, supplying and supplementing with troops the "rebels" in Donbas and other Eastern Ukrainian states. Do we seriously have to play this wordgame? Call the Russian invasion what it is, an invasion.

Do people call the American invasion of Iraq a "military intervention"? Only those who want to use euphemisms to damage control backlash against the invasion. The same applies here.

WestOverSlavs (talk) 06:00, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

  1. ^ Cite error: The named reference Reu was invoked but never defined (see the help page).