Talk:Sanātana Dharma/Archive 1

Archive 1

Sanātana

The article should explain what this term means. __meco (talk) 08:27, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Why the convoluted opening?

The Sanskrit term Sanātana Dharma (Devanagari सनातन धर्म) or Dharmam Sanātanam (Pali: Dhammo Sanatano ढम्मो शनतनो), translating to approximately "eternal law", less literally also rendered "eternal way",[1] is a historical phrase revived in late 19th century Hindu revivalism as a name for Hinduism as a religion,[2] first used by Vivekananda,[citation needed] in order to avoid having to use the term "Hindu" which is of non-native (Persian) origin.[3]. I don't see any such openings for African American or other similar articles. Is there a reason for this? It is just another routinely-used name for Hinduism in this day and age, regardless of history. I am going to change it. Please discuss here if there's an issue. --Hunnjazal (talk) 02:29, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

well, if it was just a routinely used synonym for Hinduism, there is no need for this article, it can just redirect to Hinduism. --dab (𒁳) 07:04, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Is there a reason for a distinct article? I think it should just be a redirect with a sentence in the Hinduism article that some people call it Sanatan Dharma (checked, sentence already exists). Your recent edit is just wrong BTW - "especially by adherents of Hindu revivalism." The actual division seems to be liturgical/religious use vs general use and English vs Indian language usage. Sanatan Dharm shows up all the time in Hindi, Punjabi and Kashmiri media, but specifically when in religious contexts. It is rare to see "Sanatan Dharm samaj" (i.e. Sanatan Dharm society), for instance. It's always Hindu samaj. But people do say, "Sanatan Dharm ki reeti" (Sanatan Dharm rites). I don't really see it used in the political sense you seem to be implying. For instance, Atma Ram Sanatan Dharma College is basically just Atmaram Hindu College. The connotation you imply just isn't there. Similarly, http://www.sanatandharmakendra.org/ is just a run-of-the-mill Hindu temple (in the US). There are zillions of such examples in India and Nepal. There's nothing revivalist about it. If there once was, that day definitely passed a long time ago. Secularists and Muslims use the term all the time as well (http://www.pakistanpatriot.com/?tag=indian-muslims) - "RSS type Hindutva forces, created primarily by the British, are afraid of Sanatan Dharma, the true religion of Hindus. The reason is that Sanatan Dharma and Islam have worked in an historical alliance to create the great Indian composite culture which made India a superpower during the Mughal era."

There is another nuance here that you are missing. Within Hindu society itself, your assertion may be even more wrong. Sanatanis are orthodox Hindus (Sanatan = eternal = old-style Hinduism), who believe in idol worship and lengthier rituals. Revivalist groups like Arya Samaj (who believe in vedic rituals and are evangelical) contrast themselves against Sanatanis. If you say you are a Sanatani in Central Indian Hindu society, that actually means you are an anti-revivalist. However, the term Sanatan Dharma in general is accepted by most Hindus - it just doesn't have the layered meanings you're ascribing to it. Delete this article and just make it a redirect to Hinduism. --Hunnjazal (talk) 15:07, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

I should clarify more because you are missing context and can misinterpret this. Sanatan Dharma is, for whatever reason, an accepted moniker (devoid of emotional/political baggage) for Hinduism for most Hindus. Within Hinduism itself, Sanatani carries the context of 'orthodox.' --Hunnjazal (talk) 15:12, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Error corrected in the article with references. If this article is replaced, it should probably be called Sanatani that describes the groups who opposed the revivalist/reform groups of the nineteenth and early twentieth century. This is a real split in many Hindu communities. You have reform groups (monotheistic, evangelicals, Vedic rituals, highly organized along the lines of Abrahmic religions, anti-caste system, fundamentalist for the Vedas) and Sanatanis (orthodox rituals, idol worship, non-evangelizing, more amorphously organized, non-fundamentalistic to Vedas or another any book for that matter) with different rituals and places of worship. No temple with the word Sanatan in it is ever affiliated with a revivalist group. The word revival is challenging too - because the Sanatan Dharmis also conducted some reforms in response to the revivalists in order to keep adherents from drifting away. It was sort of the Hindu equivalent to the Counter-Reformation, though not as sweeping. --Hunnjazal (talk) 08:03, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

well, we have two options, we can either expand on this and turn it into an article looking into these ideological issues, or else we can just make the title a redirect to Hinduism. If you have any quotable literature, I do encourage you to create a Sanatani article. Meanwhile, I suggest that we redirect this until somebody comes up with any worthwhile content. --dab (𒁳) 10:52, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

I concur. Let's immediately turn this article into a redirect. I will create a new Sanatani article focused on the denominational split as soon as time permits. --Hunnjazal (talk) 18:18, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Update: done. --Hunnjazal (talk) 19:18, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

fine with merging it into a Sanatani article, but you cannot just redirect it to a page which then turns out not to explain the term at all, that's not helpful. --dab (𒁳) 11:16, 6 September 2013 (UTC)