Talk:See You in My Nightmares/GA1

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewer: MarioSoulTruthFan (talk · contribs) 16:29, 12 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox

Flawless

Lead

the former relies on strings and synths. → it relies on strings and synths.
West and Lil Wayne discuss → West and Wayne discuss
of Lil Wayne's appearance → towards Wayne's appearance

Background and recording

I would remove the No I.D. photo. Yo ualready have one image on the article and said article is rather small. So one image is fine along with the cover

Unless I am mistaken, can't there be more than one image in the body as long as they are all of relevance? --K. Peake 07:30, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It can, this is just my opinion. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 09:28, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

appearance from Lil Wayne → appearance from Wayne
In the lyrics of fellow album track "The Glory", West makes a reference to him. → any point to this?

I thought it would be notable that on the album with a song featuring Wayne, West shouts him out before they collaborate again. --K. Peake 07:30, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Lil Wayne released a remix of his hit single "Lollipop" in May 2008, with the remix including a feature from West. → Wayne released a remix of his hit single "Lollipop" in May 2008 featuring West.
co-produced by his mentor No I.D → co-produced by No I.D (not on the liner notes that No I.D is his mentor)

Invoked the No I.D. Billboard ref here too since that backs up this connection --K. Peake 07:30, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest you include the mix engineer and his assistents

Are you sure all of this is really notable? Also, the writing and production info is next to No I.D. to lead into his background info. --K. Peake 07:30, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Kyle Peake: Yes, that's not a problem we should mention everyone who is notable. You should mention a 10-piece orchestra was also used, conducted by Larry Gold. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 09:28, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I added the mix engineering info, but not the rest because the orchestral info is already in comp where it belongs; being in background too is useless, as there is no extra info like how they became involved with West. --K. Peake 20:16, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Kyle Peake You don't mention every name of the orchestra, just write "A 10-piece orchestra was also used", with a note to them on the Credits and personnel section. There is also no info how West was nvolved with the mixing, Bhasker and others. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 12:47, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

MarioSoulTruthFan I have done this now, if the note looks acceptable... --K. Peake 13:06, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

After Kanye's mother Donda West died→ After West's mother, Donda West, died
to communicate with Kanye West more after persuasion from Malik Yusef → to communicate with West more after persuasion from Yusef

for the above; see MOS:SAMESURNAME --K. Peake 07:30, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks I had no idea. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 09:28, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The former two of the three then → this is confusing, I belive you are talking about West and No. I.D
for working with rapper → to work with rapper
before West decided to transfer work to 808s & Heartbreak in the country → before West decided to transfer his work on 808s & Heartbreak into the country (remove the foot note of the recording studio, no need for it)

this reads awkwardly with "his work on 808s & Heartbreak into the country", plus the note is useful since it provides context on why they were working in Hawaii without having to look at the infobox/credits --K. Peake 07:30, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Kyle Peake: You mentioned Hawaii previously "West and No I.D. then travelled to Hawaii", it is on the same sentence in fact. The sentence you have also read awkwardly "transfer work to 808s & Heartbreak", it sounds like he used some of his hork with Jay-z on his album. Needs reprahsing.

I have rephrased the transferring part, but the note should be here because it is the sentence focused on West's album. --K. Peake 20:16, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Kyle Peake: Firstly, the footnote doesn't explain why they were working on Hawaii, it just mentions the studio. Let's try this "...decided to transfer his work on 808s & Heartbreak in the country. Recording took place at Avex Recording Studio in Honolulu, Hawaii", or something on this vein. Remove the footnote. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 12:47, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@MarioSoulTruthFan: I mean that it mentions recording took place in the studio for the album, as the credits part sources. Also, this is a similar case to the music video section of "All Day", for which you told me to leave a note during the review. --K. Peake 13:06, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Very different things, because on "All Day" it mentions the song was not included on the album, so the section is different. Here is also the composotion and recording section. You don't need a footnote on the studios, you can add them here, because its the appropriate section. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 13:26, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

MarioSoulTruthFan Valid point you made there and I have replaced the note with a sentence similar to what you suggested, plus it is background and recording not composition... please tell me if this article can pass or not yet. --K. Peake 13:46, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Glow in the Dark Tour → years it ran

Composition and lyrics

West and Lil Wayne touch on → West and Wayne touch on
At the start of Lil Wayne's verse, he shouts "Baby girl, I'm finished → any point to this? Seems a bit out of place

I thought it would be notable what his opening line is, especially with the rapper being mentioned as shouting it. --K. Peake 07:30, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Kyle Peake The Pop matters article makes a point with it, its his signature snarl and into lead into the clever. Otherwise, its just lyrics. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 09:33, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Release and reception

At USA Today, Steve Jones → USA Today's Steve Jones
Expressing a divided opinion → Expressing a mixed opinion

I thought it would read repetitively to use "mixed" here, as that is what the previous para starts with --K. Peake 07:30, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Fine. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 09:35, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

with Lil Wayne's → with Wayne's
addition of Lil Wayne's → addition of Wayne's
Before spin add "In a negative perspective/view/point/review..."
For Spin, Charles Aaron → Charles Aaron, while writing for Spin,

the "while" part is too wordy and the former wording works with "a negative review" before it --K. Peake 07:30, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'm ok with it. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 09:35, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

blasted how Lil Wayne's → blasted how Wayne's (blasted is perhaps a bit out of porpotion here, no?)

Commercial performance

standing as the week's Hot Shot Debut → remove, unnecesary info for the casual reader
earning another Hot Shot Debut status on a chart for the United States → same as before

Regarding the above, this is a non-single release so I believe Hot Shot Debut status is notable, plus it's from 2008 when charting for them was less common. --K. Peake 07:30, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Kyle Peake I understand what you mean. But let's use other words, the casual reader has no idea what a "Hot Shot Debut" is. How about "it was the highest entrie on the chart that week"?

I don't think this is that confusing, as these debuts are a regular occurrence and the casual reader won't necessarily pay 100% attention to everything either way. --K. Peake 20:16, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

That's for the reader to judge, not us. Per the criteria "the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience". MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 21:10, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

pushing 500,000 → remove the word pushing

I replaced with "amassing" if that's acceptable? --K. Peake 07:30, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Much better. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 09:38, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Elsewhere, the song experienced modest chart success following the album's release → Elsewhere, the song entered two charts following the album's release
It opened at number 22 on the Canadian Hot 100, achieving the Hot Shot Debut status.[34] The song lasted for one week on the chart → It opened at number 22 on the Canadian Hot 100, spending one week on the chart

see earlier comment --K. Peake 07:30, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Live performances and other usage

performance into one of fellow 808s & Heartbreak → performance into a fellow 808s & Heartbreak

it reads awkwardly putting "into a fellow 808s & Heartbreak track" then the name, plus does not specify that West actually performed the song --K. Peake 07:30, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I have been thinking do you really need to mention on this article "Robocop" was performed? MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 10:05, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

For West's two night concert of 808s & Heartbreak in full at the 2015 Hollywood Bowl in September → year? and what do you mean in full?

I thought the year wouldn't need to be repeated at the end since it says "2015 Hollywood Bowl" literally right before, plus "in full" refers to the album being performed in its entirety. --K. Peake 07:30, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I compeltly missed the year. It reads quite awkwardly, can you try something else? MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 10:58, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

on the former music video → on the former's music video
West and Spike Jonze → West and Jonze

This is not his real name nor is he the main subject, so the full name should be used more than once --K. Peake 07:30, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Do you mean it is an alias?

Yes, it is the name he is generally known under though includes no part of his real name. --K. Peake 20:16, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

though does not star Lil Wayne → though does not star Wayne
Tada.[51] The rendition was shared by West on his blog.[51] → Tada. The rendition was shared by West on his blog.[51]

this is not at the end of the para, so the ref can be invoked separately for both sentences --K. Peake 07:30, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Credits and personnel

Fine

Charts

Fine

Certifications

Merge this with the section above calling it charts and certifications

Are you sure this needs to be done? I didn't think tables were like prose where one para sections needed to be merged... --K. Peake 07:30, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It is just one certification, doesn't need its own section. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 09:13, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Notes

See above

References

Music OHM is dead

An archive had already been added by me though, which works just fine unless there's an issue with your device? --K. Peake 07:30, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

What I meant is "dead-url=yes". MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 09:14, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oh right, this was a copy & paste template so sorry... changed url-status parameter accordingly. --K. Peake 20:16, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

External Links

Fine

Overall

Not sure why the article has Lil Wayne and not only Wayne after its first mention on the body of the article. Its not like there is another Wayne...
A lot of work to do here, let me know once you are done. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 22:42, 12 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

MarioSoulTruthFan I would like to comment here that I did not remove Lil Wayne's full name because that is his stage name and he's not the lead artist, so it should be used each time. Furthermore, I implemented the other changes except where noted. --K. Peake 07:30, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Kyle Peake I left you a note in things that still need change. They are easy to spot. Once they are addressed I will re-read the article to see if you (or I) missed anything. Good job, it was engaging to read and you showed the song's notability per the criteria. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 09:40, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

MarioSoulTruthFan Haha you reviewing the article is ironic after previously putting it up for AFD, plus I have gone over the last points above! --K. Peake 20:16, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Kyle Peake you missed the certifications and Commercial performance. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 22:54, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

MarioSoulTruthFan I have done the commercial performance, but not certifications since the sections are tables not prose so two can be separate, especially when they now have captions and this style is seemingly used in older articles. --K. Peake 05:58, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Kyle Peake Sure, I would rather the way I told you but I'm aware that are several GA's like this and even FA's, its fine. Check the first point on the "Live performances and other usage" section. Regarding the AFD you proved me wrong, you got articles talking only about the song itself. PopMatters and HotNewHipHop, I believe are the two. Not taking into consideration the mini-film. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 10:01, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

MarioSoulTruthFan Even though we have settled our disagreement on the certifications section, I do point you towards Wikipedia:What the Good article criteria are not to avoid making suggestions based on stylistic preferences. I would like to further point out that West transitioned from the song into "RoboCop" like the source says and any vid shows, making the performance relevant. Regarding the notability of the song, I made sure to dig through those sources and should've done back when you put this up for AFD, plus the Hypebeast and Vice ones focus on other versions. Update: I removed the comma for the reasoning provided in my edit summary – if the last part is confusing, I meant there is more than one other track on the album. --K. Peake 12:13, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Good point on the "Robocop". Good job on that. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 10:55, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

MarioSoulTruthFan After seeing your recent revision, I will ask which section is left to check? --K. Peake 11:02, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Left two notes on the Background and recording section. Let me know once you are done. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 12:48, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

MarioSoulTruthFan Now both of these have been addressed, can the article pass? --K. Peake 14:26, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

MarioSoulTruthFan Thank you for the pass, very nice contrast you having come all the way to that from previously contesting the article's notability! Furthermore, I added the history of the article to the talk page as I recommend you could do when reviewing GAs in the future, plus I re-added the hip hop WP because that is still West's genre. --K. Peake 09:51, 15 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.