Talk:The Cookery Book of Lady Clark of Tillypronie/GA1

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Reviewer: Tim riley (talk · contribs) 15:57, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]


I'm on much more familiar ground with this article than with the last of your GANs I tangled with. I wrote much of the two WP articles on Elizabeth David and her books, so you can set me down as another foodie. I blew the dust off Mrs David's Spices, Salt and Aromatics in the English Kitchen, and can tell you, if you'd prefer to add a page reference instead of the link at ref 17, that ED's mention of Lady Clark's Thick Parmesan Biscuits is on pp. 230–31 of my copy (the Grub Street 2000 reissue, ISBN 9781902304663).

Done, thanks.

Some comments:

  • Lead
    • "Lady Charlotte Clark" – dear me, you'll upset those strange but harmless souls who sleep with Debrett under their pillows (I nearly wrote that they slept with Burke's): you mustn't call her Lady Charlotte unless she was the daughter of an earl or even posher nobleman. As her father was a commoner, she was Charlotte, Lady Clark.
Done.
    • "the cook Elizabeth David" – she was a cook, of course, but "cookery writer" as you describe her later in the text seems a better description.
Done.
  • Context
    • "You tell us practically nothing of the Clarks. There is a Times obituary of Sir John, dated 14 April 1910 (which I can send you if you haven't got online access to The Times's archives) which tells you more than enough for your present article.
      • (awaiting input)
        • Sent Times and Who's Who stuff. Let me know if it doesn't show up in your inbox. Tim riley talk 17:02, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
          • Added some biog, refs, many thanks.
    • "They lived for some years in Turin" – the last person named was Henry James, and I think you should write "The Clarks lived…" here to avoid ambiguity.
Done.
    • Blockquote – the parenthentic dashes should be either unspaced em-dashes or spaced en-dashes, and not hyphens.
Done.
  • Book
    • I don't for a moment suggest that you must do it, but have you considered putting the list of contents into two or possibly even three columns? Easier on your reader's eye, I find.
Ah, I had already done so using {{columns-list|colwidth=22em| ...}} which works beautifully on Firefox and some others... replaced with another method, hope that works for you.
  • Approach
    • "'Zucchetti à la Piedmontaise.'"" – there is an extra set of closing quotes here
Actually I think it's correctly punctuated, the single quotes are Frere's.
  • Modern
    • "an inspiration for, the great Elizabeth David" – WP:OVERLINK at this point
Unlinked.
    • "well-travelled diplomats wife" – I see you have faithfully transcribed the original, in which there is no possessive apostrophe. I'm not sure what to suggest here. It's too minor a matter for a [sic]; I think the MoS gives you licence to add the missing apostrophe silently. You may like to consider.
Added apostrophe with seasonal goodwill.
    • In the first Holt blockquote, the quotation marks should be doubles, not singles. In the second there are more hyphens that need replacing with dashes
Done and Done.
    • Last blockquote – more quotation marks that should be doubles, not singles
Done.
  • Notes
    • "Courgettes or Zucchini" – capitalisation really wanted here?
Changed to lower case.
  • References
    • There are several mentions of "Frere (1909)" but no bibliographical details of the work in the refs/citations section. They are included earlier, within the main text, but I think they should be repeated here with the refs. You should add OCLC numbers for both editions there, too: WorldCat will oblige.
Added as Bibliography with the two editions and OCLC numbers.
    • The links to the Find My Past site should include the {{subscription}} template
Done.
    • You might standardise on either "page" or "p." in your book refs. Compare, e.g. refs 13 and 14.
Gone for p. / pp.
    • To my mind the bibliographical info for ref 14 should include the ISBN (or OCLC if for some reason there isn't an ISBN)
Added.
    • Page ranges (ref 6) and date ranges (ref 14) should have an unspaced en-dash rather than a hyphen, and I should say the hyphen in ref 7 ought to be a spaced en-dash.
Done.
    • Ref 15 – page number lacking (I can get this from the British Library after Christmas if it's a problem)
yes please; I don't think this should be a showstopper (FA not GA reqt) but will do it asap.
    • Ref 16 – The Spectator should be italicised, as the TLS is in the previous ref.
Done.

Most of these are easy fixes, but I really would like the biography to be addressed, given that suitable sources are available. – Tim riley talk 15:57, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Well, that was resolved at a rate of knots! Just one final point, on rereading: may I suggest that to avoid ambiguity you recast the last sentence of the opening para of the lead from "The book was edited by the artist Catherine Frances Frere, who had seen two other cookery books through to publication, at the request of Clark's husband." to "At the request of Clark's husband the book was edited by the artist Catherine Frances Frere, who had seen two other cookery books through to publication."

All seems to me fine for GA now. All criteria met, IMO, as below:

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

  1. Is it reasonably well written?
    A. Prose quality:
    B. MoS compliance:
  2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
    A. References to sources:
    B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:
    C. No original research:
  3. Is it broad in its coverage?
    A. Major aspects:
    B. Focused:
  4. Is it neutral?
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. Is it stable?
    No edit wars, etc:
  6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
    A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:
    B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
  7. Overall:
    Pass or Fail:

Please remind me in the New Year to check the TLS page ref. I'm only 20 mins walk from the British Library and it is no trouble to pop in and check things. But you must remind me, or I'll forget. ("Old, Master Shallow!") – Tim riley talk 17:53, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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