Talk:Tim Donaghy/Archive 1

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Donaghy's kids

Yeah, I'm here frantically looking for that info on his children. During before the news was leaked that it was Donaghy, Stephen A. Smith said on his radio show that he knew who it was, and that he found it sad considering that Donaghy (Still not mentioned by name) had 3 (Or was it 4?) kids. Smith's show ended at 1 P.M., BEFORE the 4 P.M. leakage, so Tim's name was never revealed. I mean, I know it's Stephen A. Smith, but when it comes to the NBA I consider him to be fairly reliable. So right now I'm looking around the internet trying to find another source. I hope ESPN.com still has the podcast of the show up...it was about 6 minutes in to the 28 minute podcast that it was mentioned. Any help would be appreciated. FamicomJL 06:36, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Nevermind, found reference. FamicomJL 07:20, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
The Boston Globe states he has four daughters, so I added the piece of information to the infobox and cited the source. RyguyMN 05:35, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
The way I read biographies of living persons policy, there is a "presumption of privacy". Unless his kids have some direct involvement in the gambling scandal, I don't see where it's appropriate to bring up the subject. Baseball Bugs 06:18, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
And of what relevance is information about his wife, for that matter? Baseball Bugs 06:36, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
It's an infobox. It's not in the main article. I see what you're saying, but I don't see anything wrong with putting the wife's name in the infobox. It's in the infobox of other biographies of other people on wikipedia. FamicomJL 06:39, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
There is no rule compelling all entries in an infobox to be filled in, and unless his wife is a public figure already or somehow is involved in this scandal, her name's presence violates the "presumption of privacy" on the bio page. Baseball Bugs 06:42, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
Here is the Wikipedia policy on privacy of names: "Caution should be applied when naming individuals who are discussed primarily in terms of a single event. When the name of a private individual has not been widely disseminated or has been intentionally concealed (such as in certain court cases), it is often preferable to omit it, especially when doing so does not result in a significant loss of context. When evaluating the inclusion or removal of names, their publication in secondary sources other than news media, such as scholarly journals or the work of recognized experts, should be afforded greater weight than the brief appearance of names in news stories."
"Editors should take particular care when considering whether inclusion of the names of private, living individuals who are not directly involved in an article's topic adds significant value. The presumption in favor of the privacy of family members of articles' subjects and other loosely involved persons without independent notability is correspondingly stronger."
"In all cases where the redaction of names is considered, editors should be willing to discuss the issue on the article's talk page."
Based on this policy that I've now had a chance to review, since the wife and children's names are not widely published, they should be removed from this article since they are not significant unless they become part of the investigation that Baseball Bugs has stated. What do others think? RyguyMN 02:44, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

(indent left) Sounds good to me. --Tom 12:29, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Lock?

Should we protect this article from vandalism from I.P.'s and new accounts? I have a feeling that this is going to be heavily vandalised. I'm all for it. If anyone else agrees and wants to protect this article, go ahead. FamicomJL 17:04, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't think that is necessary..yet :) Anyways, what do I know :) --Tom 18:54, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
Agreed on not yet, HOWEVER it's in a few weeks when the case gets more into light that I feel this will get vandalised. We'll see... FamicomJL 19:00, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

No other ref ever arrested

I removed this reference UNTIL/IF Donaghy is arrested. Thanks! --Tom 18:53, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

I'll leave it onto a notepad document on my computer. When/if he does get arrested, someone may remind me on my talk page and I'll make sure to promptly re-add it. :) FamicomJL 19:01, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
Sounds good, thanks! --Tom 19:43, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

This statement that was added to the article appears to be WP:Crystal: "Donaghy is expected to self-surrender to federal law enforcement officials in New York City before July 28." This pertains to a future event and we can not say for sure that he will surrender. I think this should be removed. Thoughts? RyguyMN 23:20, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

That sentence does cite a source which verifies its claim through two federal law enforcement officials. I think the sentence can stay, since WP:Crystal is supposed to be about "unverifiable speculation." BassoProfundo 02:30, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
Oh course they are unnamed. I would remove it but I didn't. I did remove the stuff about being arrested as that is premature it seems. Let the blogs jump out in front on this. Thanks, --Tom 02:39, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Link

Please also add this interesting link. http://www.covers.com/pageLoader/pageLoader.aspx?page=/data/nba/referees/2006-2007/referee403935.html&t=0

I've never understood the relevance of this for the reason that if Donaghy was fixing, one wouldn't think he would necessarily favor the home or away team in any given game, just whoever he had money on. It's nice to have data available, but its not exactly 'gotcha' data.216.165.12.46

High school relevance

Question: What is the relevancy to "Donaghy attended Cardinal O'Hara High School in Springfield, Pennsylvania and is one of four NBA referees from the same school along with Joey Crawford, Mike Callahan, and Ed Malloy." To me it's interest as a fact is mitigated by the damage that can be done unintentionally against these 3 men who to the best of my knowledge are not involved in this scandal.

It would be an association fallacy to conclude from this statement there is anything wrong with Joey Crawford, Mike Callahan, and Ed Malloy. I don't think it is phrased in such way as to imply anything about these three referees. Following the same line of reasoning, shouldn't we then also remove all mentions that Adolph Hitler was a vegetarian, since some readers subject to association fallacies might imply there is something wrong with other vegetarians? Gb1291 14:59, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Villanova athletics

I've seen some conflicting information regarding the sports that Donaghy played at Villanova. His page at the referees association website lists that he played basketball but it seems a lot of the news stories says he played baseball. This was further confirmed with the media guide that he didn't play basketball. Does anyone have issues if this part of the article is changed to baseball and noted with a source (or two)? RyguyMN 23:35, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

No problem with me. FamicomJL 01:12, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Father's name

Tim Donaghy's father's name is Gerry, not Jerry. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.84.63.229 (talkcontribs) 10:10, July 24, 2007 (UTC).

This was corrected in the article. Thanks! RyguyMN 17:38, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Gambino Crime Family Link

Would it be of high enough importance to document that the reports say that the mafia that approached him during the scandal was of the Gambino crime family? Seraphimneeded 02:30, 25 July 2007 (UTC) Link: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,290342,00.html Seraphimneeded 02:33, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

If you can provide a link to some of these reports, then it would probably be relevant. BassoProfundo 02:40, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Information on the Rasheed Wallace confrontation

I don't know how to edit nor have a desire to learn, but a heads up on the Rasheed Wallace confrontation. I don't know if there were TWO incidents with him and Wallace, or if the information in that sub section is wrong. But a confrontation with Donaghy and Wallace happened after the Memphis Grizzlies in the loading dock area at the Pyramid in Memphis, TN. It resultedin a 7 day suspension for Wallace. I know this before I was at the game. Here is a link from ESPN.com http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=1499153&type=columnist

It's the same game. If you re-read the link you provided, it clearly states the Blazers were playing the Grizzlies at Portland. RyguyMN 05:00, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

donaghy's sports background

It says in this bio that mr donaghy "received honors in baseball and basketball" at Cardinal O'Hara High School. While I assume he participated in these sports in HS; my research shows he was not awarded any awards or All-star recognition by teh catholic league of philadelphia during his soph, junior or senior years ('83 - '85) according to my sources at www.tedsilary.com 138.162.0.41 18:10, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

This is what Donaghy's bio states on the referees union website: "Named All-Catholic and All-Delaware County in baseball and All-Delaware County in basketball while at Cardinal O'Hara High School." Are you able to verify this? RyguyMN 23:12, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

He is not listed anywhere on Ted Silary's Philadelphia High School Sports Website for Catholic League Baseball Honors (1st or 2nd Team) in any year - if there was an Honorable mention category it is not listed. I have no idea where to look for All-Delaware County honors as I assume that is for local recognition and not League wide. 138.162.0.42 15:29, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Forced out

There seems to be an edit war in regards to whether or not Donaghy was forced out. This is what Commissioner Stern had to say at the press conference, "On July 9, Mr. Donaghy resigned. Suffice it to say that we would like to have terminated him earlier upon learning certain things, but it was our understanding that the investigation would best be aided if we did not terminate Mr. Donaghy. So, we did not, and he resigned." [1] From the statement, the NBA knew about it, but they did not pressure (or "force") Donaghy to resign, so being forced out should be removed from the article in my opinion. RyguyMN 23:08, 26 July 2007 (UTC) I don't see much consensus for keeping this part in the article, in fact there is consensus for deleting it. Absent a source claiming coercion or pressure by the NBA for Donaghy to resign, this shouldn't really be an edit war. --Roehl Sybing 17:33, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Lasik surgery

Is this piece of information relevant to his bio? "Donaghy had a Lasik surgery performed at the Laser Vision Correction centre in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania in 2007. Before that he was wearing contact lenses while officiating. His testimony on the official website of the centre has since been removed, but had been documented by other websites before." I just don't see what this has to do with anything. RyguyMN 17:49, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Shaq, Phil, and the Lakers

There was an incident a few years ago with Phil Jackson, when Donaghy fouled out Shaq quickly with some ticky tack calls. Phil made a big stink about it after the game, and was fined $10,000 by the league office for his comments. Shaq went so far as to say (paraphrasing), "it's like the outcome was predetermined." I cannot find this story anywhere reputable, it's such an old story (2003?) that the LA Times had removed it from their site. If anyone has a source for this, it would make a great addition to the main article. Mujarimojo 16:49, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

How would this make a great addition to this article? This would be the essence of original research. Unless there are articles that specifically tie that incident to his investigation, ect, its just more trivia, imho. Anyways, --Tom 17:48, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
Agreed Tom, you can't say that this Lakers game had anything to do with the investigation. Many players have commented on officiating in games over the years. Does this mean that every referee mentioned in these comments are guilty of some crime? Of course not. RyguyMN 00:01, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

GAC Ready?

Anyone else think this article might be Good Article ready? I'll see what everyone else thinks, and make a decision after everyone else says what they think. FamicomJL 01:24, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

I think it's possible with a little house cleaning. If there is one issue that keeps it from GA is that its too heavily weighted on the betting scandal although this is what he's most notable for. RyguyMN 04:00, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Clarification

I haven't read any published reports suggesting that Donaghy will likely "tell the government" that other NBA referees have bet on games. I have read in numerous publications that he plans to expose other referees who've broken gambling rules (which are very strict). Any speculation about whether or not those violations of league policy will constitute breaking the law is probably going a bit too far, at this point. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.151.238.16 (talkcontribs)

Suns-Spurs game

Should it be under "Officiating Career"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.32.249.82 (talk) 04:25, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Picture

Anyone going to add a new picture? 24.186.96.84 (talk) 02:03, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

2002 Playoffs accusations

Should there be a section added about Donaghy's testimony that the NBA worked with referees to fix a series in the 2002 NBA playoffs? I just heard about it on ESPN today and don't know if there's enough information about his accusations to warrant coverage in this article. As there are no specific teams or referees mentioned, I don't know if it's really worthy of mention, but I want to know what others think. MarkLucas (talk) 01:24, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

It's difficult at this point to determine what's true and what's speculation, so it's probably best to leave the article as it is until more information becomes available. I would like to hear what others think however. RyguyMN (talk) 04:15, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
I absolutely believe that this should be in the article, because this is a major story in the sports world. However, the version I came across today was hopelessly point of view. I decided to be bold and rewrite the section myself, placing it under a new header. I made sure that everything is well-sourced. If you don't like it, feel free to get rid of it. Giants2008 (talk) 15:21, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Pop Culture References

In the episode "The Collection" of the TV series 30 Rock, Jack Donaghy, in response to a question about whether there are any bones in his family's closet, informs a private investigator "my cousin Tim fixes NBA games." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.91.233.5 (talk) 02:31, 25 August 2008 (UTC)