Talk:Tornado outbreak sequence of May 19–27, 2024/Archive 1

Archive 1

Chaser death?

This draft--and the mainspace list--both claim that a "storm chaser" was killed after being ejected from their car, both citing the same source, and claiming that it's the first chaser death since El Reno. I think we may have no less than two factual errors there, though I can only cite a source on one of them. First off, the source cited for the claim of the chaser being killed doesn't actually say anything about them being a chaser. To directly quote it, "One woman died after being ejected from a vehicle during the storm near Corning in Adams County, about 70 miles southwest of Des Moines, according to Lisa Brown, the county medical examiner." Not one word about her having been chasing the tornado, not even any hinting that she was--just that she was ejected from her vehicle. It's entirely plausible that she was just some random motorist who wasn't chasing the storm at all and blundered into it, particularly since indications appear to be that the tornado was rain-wrapped near Corning. Beyond that, I also question whether this would have actually been the first chaser fatality since El Reno--I can't find the exact reference at the moment, but I seem to recall that a couple of chasers were killed in a traffic accident during a chase somewhere in the 2014-15 timeframe. Thoughts? rdfox 76 (talk) 19:11, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

A chaser was confirmed dead, but this info has just been released and I can’t find a good source other than Twitter (there was a photo, so this was confirmed), for El Reno I’m not sure. MemeGod ._. (My talk page, my contributions and my creations!) 19:13, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

The woman in the article was a chaser, I’ll update once a source is found MemeGod ._. (My talk page, my contributions and my creations!) 19:14, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

But do we even know if the death is even related to the tornado at all, for all we know the death could be result of losing control in the heavy rain and crashing. 216.24.109.110 (talk) 17:11, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

Mexico Tornado

Should we add the May 23 tornado that hit Toluca , Mexico as part of the tornado outbreak sequence ? https://www.elmanana.com/noticias/nacional/tornado-en-toluca-dos-personas-mueren-en-caida-de-barda/5847473 216.24.109.110 (talk)

Change title to just "May 2024"?

There is currently a massive outbreak underway which is technically part of this period of activity (multiple confirmed tornadoes down in Kansas and Oklahoma). Shouuld we just change the title to "Tornado outbreak sequence of May 2024"? It's getting way too long. MemeGod ._. (My talk page, my contributions and my creations!) 23:35, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

Or just the "Late May 2024 outbreak sequence" (or something to that effect)? I know we had a large one earlier, but this is already 6+ days long. MemeGod ._. (My talk page, my contributions and my creations!) 23:40, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

No, because we already have a page for the earlier outbreak this month. The current title is fine. MarioProtIV (^talk/_contribs) 00:45, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Non-tornadic effects

Why is that section not made yet? 2600:4808:353:7B01:7544:63EF:74B2:1FBB (talk) 14:41, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Tornado Terminology

Strong tornadoes refer to EF2 or EF3 tornadoes. Calling a tornado strong before we have a survey is speculation. SalmonSalmonSalmon (talk) 17:43, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

"Strong" should not be used unless it is guarenteed there is EF2 or higher damage Weather article creator (talk) 18:46, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Celina, Texas

@Nicholas Krasznavolgyi: Do you have a source for the two deaths in Celina, Texas? I see an EF3 listed in a PNS but it says there were no fatalities. TornadoLGS (talk) 02:52, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Should be fixed now. That was a mistake on my end. Nicholas Krasznavolgyi (talk) 02:54, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 May 2024

Please delete the notes section because there are no notes 2600:4808:353:7B01:444:7FD9:82C5:113A (talk) 19:20, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

 Done M.Bitton (talk) 23:57, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Image

@MemeGod27; please tell me that you took the picture. Because we don’t want a copyright violation just because your friend supposedly “took” a picture of a tornado. West Virginia WXeditor (talk) 14:25, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

I did, see the description and everything. You can remove it if you feel iffy about it (since I have been known to be somewhat untrustworthy with photos in the past) but yes. I did take that photo. Also, I don't know if that was the Greenfield tornado, I was in mostly rural areas and was more in the moment than trying to locate where the tornado was. All I know was that I was east of Greenfield, trying to stay a relatively safe distance away while still getting a good video. MemeGod ._. (My talk page, my contributions and my creations!) 14:27, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Can someone add this to WikiProject:West Virginia?

The storm produced a large squall line which we might was well say was a derecho because it tracked well over the 400 mile threshold. And the storm impacted basically the entire state of West Virginia in the process. It also produced one tornado near Winfield. Why is this article not part of WP:WV? West Virginia WXeditor (talk) 17:57, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Never mind; I added the tag. West Virginia WXeditor (talk) 18:20, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did the outbreak continue into the 28th?

There was a confirmed tornado in Eldorado, OK on May 28. Does this count as part of the sequence (hence continuing it into the 28th), or is this tornado unrelated? MemeGod ._. (My talk page, my contributions and my creations!) 14:07, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

As a matter of fact @WxTrinity; it seems like it did.

The NWS issued a Severe Thunderstorm Warning for DVD sized hail on May 28th. First time on record that they issued a warning for hailstones that big. I didn’t even know that the WarnGen software supported dissemination of warnings for 5-inch hail until today. There are sources that I can back up here. Iowa Environmental Mesonet archived the warning and keeps records back to 2005 (and in some cases back to the ‘80s and ‘90s.), there was also an article from the Washington Post about it.

I’ll list the text of the warning (which should go on Wikisource in my opinion):

...A SEVERE THUNDERSTORM WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL 700 PM CDT FOR CENTRAL HOCKLEY COUNTY...

At 632 PM CDT, a severe thunderstorm was located 5 miles northwest of Levelland, moving southeast at 20 mph. Giant hail to 5 inches in diameter was reported with this storm northwest of Levelland.

THIS IS A DESTRUCTIVE STORM FOR LEVELLAND AND SMYER!

HAZARD...DVD size hail and 60 mph wind gusts.

SOURCE...Trained weather spotters.

IMPACT... People and animals outdoors will be severely injured. Expect shattered windows, extensive damage to roofs, siding, and vehicles. West Virginia WXeditor (talk) 21:49, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Move to May 24 / future move to May 25 / 26 / 27

Multiple confirmed tornadoes associated with the system over Nebraska on May 23 have been reported with future confirmation / surveys expected from NWS Quad Cities IA / IL near Coal Valley and Illinois City. As well, the SPC is predicting a potentially significant outbreak on the day of May 25, with a MDT risk being issued and the 1730z update explicitly stating that "[o]nly reduced confidence in total storm coverage is precluding a High Risk at this time." while also stating May 25 could be a historic outbreak given the favorable environment, as well as risks continuing into Day 3 / 4 (May 26/27). (I understand it's not the policy to move a page for a predicted outbreak until it's happened, but if and when it does happen it should be moved.) GeorgeMemulous (talk) 22:00, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

It really depends on how much activity tomorrow and the 26th produce. Should they overperform on their own (i.e, if say we get multiple violent tornadoes and a 24-hr count over 75 or so) I might be in more favor of creating a separate page for them instead of grouping into the sequence and leaving the 24th as a break period between outbreaks (the 23rd was associated with the remains of the 21st outbreak or at least its southern tail end). If it is not too different from the previous days I would be in favor of grouping those here. MarioProtIV (^talk/_contribs) 22:29, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

If we're going to split the article, shouldn't we split it at May 20? Tornado activity that day was limited to landspouts. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 23:23, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

That might work. Not sure what the threshold is for moving it to May 24th. We just had a tornado emergency in Texas. TornadoLGS (talk) 00:36, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

There were tornadoes in Illinois earlier (with damage done), plus broadcast media confirmed a tornado in North Dakota. Once a survey comes out, we can move it to the 24th and if/when stuff occurs on the 25th/26th, we can just expand it at that point. Long outbreak sequence articles have been done in the past (Tornado outbreak sequence of May 2019 is an example of a 14-day one), so no reason to not just continue expanding it as long as we have tornadoes each day. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 01:27, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

Scratch that. We need to add May 28th to the list. The NWS issued a Severe Thunderstorm Warning for DVD sized hail (5 inches in diameter) which was the first time that the NWS issued a warning for hail that large ANYWHERE in the United States. West Virginia WXeditor (talk) 02:15, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Don't think that's relevant; large hail is not exactly indicative of tornado activity, especially here. If that potentially violent tornado a few days later hit Midland / Odessa directly, I'd consider that worthy of adding to the article. Plus, that area of Texas gets large hail all the time (a new record of 7 inch hail, the largest in the state, was set 3 days ago).

On the 28th, there were only 2 tornado reports; one was a landspout, and the other produced no damage. Hardly worthy of extending the article. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 12:01, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

It's still a tornado though. With that logic, you could have a million EF0 tornadoes that wouldn't count. While I agree that hail is not tornadic, the tornado in Eldorado was still part of the sequence. WxTrinity (talk to me!) 16:15, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

And it was also from the same storm system and trough (I may be wrong, though.) It's a continuation of the outbreak. WxTrinity (talk to me!) 16:15, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Well there should be a mention of it somewhere. Maybe in a section on Weather in 2024? West Virginia WXeditor (talk) 16:58, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Or maybe in a list of most notable hailstorms article/section? West Virginia WXeditor (talk) 17:00, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

This is based on existing Wikipedia precedent; the Tornado outbreak of May 6–10, 2024 ended at the 10th, despite tornados occuring multiple days before and after. For outbreak sequences, the one in May 2019 could have extended through June 9 by this logic. The last major outbreak of our sequence was on the 27th, and that's where we have it capped. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 17:41, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, now that you explain it like that it makes more sense. WxTrinity (talk to me!) 17:43, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Well the Texas hailstorm at least needs to be in the list of costly hailstorms because it was notable for the precedent set by the NWS. West Virginia WXeditor (talk) 19:54, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Pryor

it's actually Pryor Creek, not Pryor Weather article creator (talk) 18:42, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Sources are calling it Pryor, so we should go with WP:COMMONNAME. ChessEric 19:34, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Daily Statistics

Once all of the tornadoes from this outbreak are confirmed, should we consider the addition of a "Daily Statistics" table for this article? There doesn't seem to be any official guidelines for when such a table can be added to tornado outbreaks, but I feel that an event with over 10 EF3 tornadoes spanning over a week may warrant one.

Of course, this should wait until the remaining EF? are confirmed (approaching 190–200 tornadoes), but I am curious about what the users think.

Additionally, I would be more than welcome to add "Daily Statistics" tables to other articles, but only if a standard for adding them is agreed upon. There are several older articles that could benefit from having them, and other articles that likely should not qualify for them. 174.171.152.215 (talk) 17:10, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

I did that on the list page. ChessEric 19:35, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Derecho?

There were multiple likely derechos that happened during this time period. None of the storm complexes are even mentioned.

I experienced one of the derechos back on Sunday afternoon with high winds, trash cans being blown in the road (or even going missing altogether); it traveled at least 600 miles from where I started tracking it when it was near Paducah (it probably traveled further) to where it dissipated near Washington, DC.

My question to the more experienced Wikipedians is why is the derecho aspect of this NOT mentioned? West Virginia WXeditor (talk) 17:52, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

I’m not exactly sure, but I know that the derechos that did happen were relatively minor (may be wrong). They should definitely be mentioned, though. WxTrinity :3 (My talk page, my contributions and my creations!) 17:58, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

If they are mentioned, they should probably be covered in the “non-tornado impacts” section, as wind damage is mainly non-tornadic. WxTrinity :3 (My talk page, my contributions and my creations!) 18:00, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

If there are reliable sources covering this aspect, yes they should be. Otherwise, we shouldn't. Stefen Tower_{s among the rest!} ^{Gab • Gruntwerk} 18:00, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Well we need to LOOK 👀! West Virginia WXeditor (talk) 18:02, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

I’ll get to it in a sec :D WxTrinity :3 (My talk page, my contributions and my creations!) 18:03, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

But why on earth is the straight line winds not mentioned in the non-tornadic section. Especially the effects around Louisville and out into western Kentucky. There were counties out towards Paducah and Hopkinsville where most of the county was without power. There were well over 40k power outages in the Louisville Metro area. Tons of tree damage. Why is that not mentioned? Or barely mentioned? West Virginia WXeditor (talk) 18:18, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Not sure. I know that areas near Marietta got it pretty bad as well. WxTrinity :3 (My talk page, my contributions and my creations!) 18:28, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Marietta, Oklahoma? Might I ask how we went from talking about West Virginia and Kentucky to talking about Oklahoma? West Virginia WXeditor (talk) 18:31, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Honestly, I thought that we were talking about areas affected. Best to stay on topic, because this is turning into a forum. WxTrinity :3 (My talk page, my contributions and my creations!) 19:13, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

We have added some of the derecho impacts now. ChessEric 19:36, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Greenfield wind speed

In the DAT the maximum wind speed of the tornado is 180 mph, but in the article it's 175-185 mph. Should we keep it at that or revise it to 180 mph? Poodle23 (talk) 20:05, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

The dat description actually says 175-185 mph 2600:1014:B14B:959B:0:20:42AF:B101 (talk) 23:43, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

That's a comment. The actual wind speed is listed as 180 mph. Poodle23 (talk) 17:24, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

The maximum windspeeds based ob damage are 185 mph Unbannable user (talk) 18:19, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Speaking of the wind speeds, the article is now citing DOW7 as having gotten 309-318 mph wind gusts at 44m AGL, but the cited sources are the same old ones from Josh Wuhrman that said "270, possibly as high as 290." Am I missing something somewhere, or has the data been reanalyzed to give the higher results? If it has, then can someone actually cite a source for the reanalysis? (I'm not looking at BOLDly correcting it partly because apparently Reed Timmer mentioned something along those lines in a video recently, so I figured I'd ask if there was any other source for that number.) rdfox 76 (talk) 02:27, 23 June 2024 (UTC) EDIT: OK, just checked it out, and apparently someone changed the link in source 75 (Wurman's initial tweet about it) to a new one from the 22nd, but didn't update the rest of the fields in the citation template to reflect the change. I'm so rusty with templates I'm afraid I'll break it if I try to update it; could someone do so for me? rdfox 76 (talk) 02:31, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

If it was 300 mph winds, then shouldn't it have been an EF5 TORNADO? 212.164.64.148 (talk) 14:15, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

EF rating is determined by damage, not windspeed. SalmonSalmonSalmon (talk) 14:30, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

that is not how the EF scale works, it could help the survey in someway though but probably not. 67.58.252.227 (talk) 22:15, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Update, I've adjusted the exact verbiage in that area, including both the initial (250-290) and final (309-319) winds Wurman reported. I restored the initial data to give a little more context to the following comment about the IF-scale rating (since it might be confusing that he's discussing 250 and 290 when we're only mentioning winds higher than both figures!), then added a bit with the updated figures after. I also think I got the citations corrected for both figures, but someone else may want to go and see if they can find an archive link for the June tweet (which is currently source 80). rdfox 76 (talk) 17:16, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Moving the greenfield tornado to its own article

is there any chance that we could move the greenfield tornado to its own article? 67.58.252.227 (talk) 01:16, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

I mean, it's likely. Poodle23 (talk) 01:42, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Draft:2024 Greenfield tornado theres one already Hoguert (talk) 03:28, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

The draft still needs work before being moved into mainspace. Unbannable user (talk) 18:18, 28 June 2024 (UTC)