Talk:Violin technique

What do you think about merging the article how to play the violin with this one? J Lorraine 07:15, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

The very question I was thinking of last night. That article is kind of skimpy, but does note the basic hand position that makes an A major scale on the A & E (or G on the bottom two. I plan to put a chart on this page of some other such patterns, starting with low 2nd finger... five in all.) How does one "merge a page?" I assume there's a way to have the "How to..." article redirect to this one. Just plain Bill 14:49, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Did it. Brought over the wikibooks link and some words on bow grip. The rest was already covered here. 05:13, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

"How to do it" vs. "How it is done"

This may of course be partly the problem of merging the two articles, but there are two distinct tones of voice in this article. One is primarily descriptive: "violinists do this" "sometimes that is done", etc. The other is proscriptive "a violinist should do this". My first conviction is that it needs to be one or the other; my second (less strong) opinion is that it ought to be descriptive, since this is NOT a how-to manual. 1) There are many many string teaching methods. The encyclopedia should not be one of them. 2) We need to cite sources. Directions are very hard to cite, but descriptions of this or that school of technique, or this or that pedagogy book, or video, or whatnot, are quite easy. 3) IF information that this or that way of playing is 'good' or 'bad' comes from an encyclopedia, it ought to come in a roundabout way -- that is, the reader ought to judge what is best from the neutral description of how things are done and what kind of sound is produced and what kind of physical problems are induced or overcome by such-&-such a way of playing or holding the instrument.

(forgot to sign my name before) J Lorraine 01:20, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Both opinions make sense to me: unity of tone, in favor of description rather than prescription. (To proscribe something is to forbid it. Sorry, I probably need to keep my inner vocabulary nerd on a shorter leash.) I think I can find some time soon, maybe even this week, to massage the article into such a shape. If someone else gets there first, that's less work I'll be doing on it. ;-)

Cites for some things may be tougher to find. For example, the bit about "chopping" and who does a lot of it, came from a workshop presented last December by a young man who was lucky enough to get Darol Anger to help him refine his chopping technique over a couple of years. It really is one of those things that deserves to be done right, or not at all. Best description I can come up with at the moment is a sort of hand jive using the hair next to the frog. I can go looking for something written and web-accessible, but I wonder if there's any hope of finding much. Just plain Bill 04:01, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Did the deed. Trying to find "should" now only gets hits on "shoulder." There are still some "musts," but I believe they are descriptive, for example "must put finger in right place or else sound out of tune," and "must tune to the piano." Just plain Bill 09:36, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Bill. I've been buried in sorting out my taxes recently, so haven't had time to do more than make suggestions instead of edit the work myself. J Lorraine 11:09, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Various pitch standards

While I'm at it, I intend to include brief mention of groups tuning their A to something other than 440. That doesn't need to burden the Violin article, but I think it's appropriate to mention it here. For the skeptics, here's some light and entertaining reading:

1. Wikipedia article on Pitch
2. Interesting graph of historical pitches
3. "...some instruments are now manufactured to play at 442 Hz. since it has become so common in orchestral work."
4. Piano tuners might not like going above 440.
5. In fact, they hate it.
6. Guitarist sees modern electronic keyboards at 441 or 442.
7. Some saxes and clarinets made with 442 in mind.
8. Chief Steinway tech meets prima donna oboist. Berlin Phil at 446 under von Karajan.
9. Midori's agent requests 442.
10. Pipe major sees bands trying to tune to 440 or 442.
11. Vocabulary: does "concert pitch" mean "non-transposing" or is it to do with freq of A?
12. Find "anarchist xenophobes" on this page. ;-)

Just plain Bill 19:34, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

that Heifetz quote

I've now cast that as more of a myth, since I haven't been able to find an authoritative source for the quote itself. Enough different versions of it can be found by searching for "Heifetz" +"intonation" +"quicker" or some variation, and sifting through the results. Wherever I have seen this notion, it has always been attributed to him. Does anybody know? __ Just plain Bill 16:12, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Article title

When attempting to find this article I looked under "Violin technique", perhaps because I'm a conservatory snob (...in voice, but still). Should that be the title of this article, or a redirect here? Opinions? Mak (talk) 18:51, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, good idea. At least a redirect. --Quadalpha 03:08, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

North American dial tone has a 440 Hz component

It's not a "buzz," but a two-note chord, if you actually listen to it, and the frequency accuracy of it is good enough for rock and roll. I've used it a number of times when another reference was not available. I've seen others do the same. May have saved me from breaking a string a time or two. I read the dial tone article as well, and the statement that

"An experienced guitar player will be able to tune to the dial tone of a phone. The dial tone is a combination of the musical notes 'A' and 'F'." 

has stood without challenge for over a year now. By itself, that doesn't prove a thing, of course, but searching around for info on the frequency accuracy of telephone signalling tone gemerators points mostly in the neighborhood of 0.1% which amounts to less than half a Hz, a lot less than the spread between some Baroque tunings and some other modern Euro-style ones. __Just plain Bill 03:50, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I distinctly hear a dominant F and a faint A when I listen to a dial tone, both basically in tune, so I guess it's possible to tune to it, although I've never tried (although I have perfect pitch, so there's no real need). —METS501 (talk) 03:53, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

at least part of this article has been copied

this paragraph:

"Small, temporary tuning adjustments can also be made by stretching a string with the hand. A string may be flattened by pulling it above the fingerboard, or sharpened by pressing the part of the string in the pegbox. These techniques may be useful in performance, reducing the ill effects of an out-of-tune string until the arrival of a rest or other opportunity to tune properly."

...is also in the follwing document: http://www.animato.com.au/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=40

Jpx 25 (talk) 03:10, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Been copied from wikipedia to that paper, you mean. This is when that "reducing the ill effects of an out-of-tune string until the arrival of a rest or other opportunity to tune properly" showed up in the wikipedia. I see other bits of my writing in that link as well, for example, "Some violists reverse the stringing of the C and G pegs, so the thicker C string does not turn so severe an angle over the nut..."

If I remember right, J_Lorraine then added the bit saying, "although this is uncommon."

No problem-- everything we write here is released under the terms of the GFDL. __Just plain Bill (talk) 05:36, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Bornoff diagram clarification request

Left hand finger patterns, after George Bornoff

Moved from article page:

The Bornoff diagram is unclear (I'm a violinist). For example, what scale is shown, is it a five-stringed instrument, how do the other four diagrams referred to (numbers 1-5 are implied) differ from the one shown. diff showing edit by 68.165.77.8 at 03:44, 30 September 2009

The diagram does not show an instrument or scale. Each vertical line shows a possible finger pattern on a single string. Horizontal lines are a half-step apart. For example, the key of G major in first position uses pattern 2 on the G and D, and pattern 1 on the A and E strings. __ Just plain Bill (talk) 17:45, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Louré

A minor point, but in French the word for potato is pomme, not Louré. Wschart (talk) 12:56, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

German interwiki

Somehow de:Strichart keeps being added as an equivalent page. I believe "Strichart" might better be translated as "bowing," and so does not completely correspond to "Playing the violin." Another possible mismatch might be de:Griffart (Violine) (which does not presently exist) which would cover left-hand finger patterns. For now, I have removed the interwiki link. Just plain Bill (talk) 13:00, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Resolved, I believe. The iw bots seem to have stopped since de:Strichart no longer points to this page (and fr:Jeu du violon no longer points to de:Strichart.) __ Just plain Bill (talk) 03:29, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Nope, too soon. Looks like there is another iw bot on the case. __ Just plain Bill (talk) 04:06, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Disambig link

There is a link to a disambig page in the intro to the article. should it be going straight to a page (its the arco link)? I think it should be going to the String instrument page but I am not sure. Thanks,  Adwiii  Talk  21:23, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

I just linked it to Bow (music). __ Just plain Bill (talk) 21:43, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, I had no idea where it needed to go (I'm more of a band person personally) . Thanks again,  Adwiii  Talk  23:46, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for noticing the dab link in the first place. There is a section on bowing right here in this article as well as at the linked one. Those are the only relevant targets I'm aware of. __ Just plain Bill (talk) 00:13, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Carnatic playing position

Here is an image of a player resting the scroll on his foot. Just plain Bill (talk) 19:02, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

@Just plain Bill: that's a really useful photo for explaining the position (it's not otherwise very apparent to a person from a culture in which musicians rarely sit cross-legged that it's actually possible to support the scroll on your foot while being able to reach the finger-board). That photo is clearly copyright so it can't be used in the article directly, but is it in a site that could be reasonably used as a source (or do you have something similar that we could use?)? It'd be great if we could cite it for the benefit of others as confused as me! Elemimele (talk) 23:09, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

... I found a possible site and added it; I've also added a comment about Baroque violin, since performers of historical music very often hold the instrument around their collar-bone without using the chin, and when they do use their chin, often use a piece of cloth instead of a chin-rest. Elemimele (talk) 10:13, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

here's a video of Eva Saladin playing that way.[1] Elemimele (talk) 10:17, 25 December 2023 (UTC)