Talk:Vote.org
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Untitled[edit]
In terms of looking for where the Vote.org article can be improved, I intend to greatly expand on the information provided as to Vote.org's CEO change in April 2020. As it stands currently, the article references this change in a single sentence, citing a Vox article on this subject. I plan to expand this section's information on why Debra Cleaver was removed, as the article leaves out much of referenced information on why this switch occurred. I also plan to expand the information provided on the current CEO, Andrea Hailey, in terms of her background with the organization and what work she has done since becoming CEO. Particularly, I want to focus on elaborating a few key pieces of information left out of the current article: why exactly Debra Cleaver was removed by the board, how this affected the donors and benefactors of Vote.org as well as their response in the 2020 election, and why Andrea Hailey was chosen to replace her and her respective background in civic technology. Listed here are a number of sources which elaborate on this information[1][2][3][4][5].
Hasen, Rick (Tue Apr 28 21:22:40 PDT 2020). "[EL] ELB News and Commentary 4/29/20". Retrieved 2021-09-19. Check date values in: |date= (help)Cite error: There are<ref>tags on this page without content in them (see the help page). "The Great Battlefield - Taking the Reins at Vote.org with Andrea Hailey of Civic Engagement Fund on Stitcher". Stitcher. Retrieved 2021-09-19.Cite error: There are<ref>tags on this page without content in them (see the help page). "Analyzing the 2020 Election with Vote.org CEO, Andrea Hailey". hcdc.clubs.harvard.edu. Retrieved 2021-09-19.Cite error: There are<ref>tags on this page without content in them (see the help page). "Vote.org | DRK Foundation | Supporting passionate, high impact social enterprises". Retrieved 2021-09-19.Cite error: There are<ref>tags on this page without content in them (see the help page). Hasen, Rick. ""How one of America's most important voting rights groups plunged into chaos just before it was needed most" | Election Law Blog". Retrieved 2021-09-19. Cite error: There are<ref>tags on this page without content in them (see the help page).Vanguard826 (talk) 18:58, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment[edit]
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 25 August 2021 and 1 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Vanguard826. Peer reviewers: Matinhomafar, Maddydowling27, Emmettaking, Amarjb, Jeffrie w, Kassandras1029.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 04:45, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
Peer review of article[edit]
Hi, here are some suggestions for improving this article. First, the source Bustle used in this paper has a left skew (1) so it may be less reliable to cite from, but since this skew only leans left the source could still be used in a limited capacity. Second, if possible information on the total levels of funding before and after the CEO change could offer more insight into the effect of this CEO change on vote.org’s reputation. Third, the section covering the current work of this organization could use more information, especially regarding the organization’s campaigning against the Georgia law requiring an ID to vote which has a brief mention in the segment. Overall this article covers pertinent details on vote.org and only needs a few additions to its current work and the previous points for improvement to be a top-quality Wikipedia article. Amarjb (talk) 06:10, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
peer review[edit]
The one thing that stands out from this article is how detailed the timeline of the history of vote.org is displayed. It is displayed in a manner that clearly shows how the company has been developing throughout the past few years. However, one apparent issue is the lack of context in the current work; if there is any other current work that could be listed or talked about in a deeper context would help the reader in knowing that vote.org is still working on projects and contributing. I believe the article writer has a great opportunity to elaborate on what the company's goals are now compared to previous goals due to the change in CEO.Maddydowling27 (talk) 06:37, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
- Vote.org's goals are to increase civic participation, especially among underrepresented communities, and to protect democracy. Here is the 2020 Impact Report: https://impact.vote.org/, which provides a summary of recent work. In addition, there are numerous news articles profiling recent work, which can be found here:
- http://www.blackstarnews.com/us-politics/elections/campaign-legal-center-and-voteorg-partner-to-help-felons-access
- https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/todaysdebate/2020/01/17/2020-voting-because-why-usa-today-network-launching-drive-editorials-debates/4459998002/
- https://www.latimes.com/espanol/california/articulo/2020-01-22/conozca-sus-derechos-como-puedo-restaurar-mi-derecho-al-voto-si-estuve-encarcelado
- https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/companies-pledge-give-workers-time-vote-72649828
- https://blavity.com/why-we-cant-honor-our-ancestors-without-exercising-the-rights-for-which-they-fought?category1=opinion&category2=news
- https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/05/stacey-abrams-michelle-obama-urge-voters-join-fight-protect-access-ballot/
- https://www.forbes.com/sites/annefield/2020/10/24/how-propel-and-voteorg-helped-register-60000-snap-beneficiaries-to-vote/?sh=14ace5093ea1
- https://www.bemyeyes.com/blog/vote-org
- https://api.whatsapp.com/message/4RESQU2XGBQHM1
- https://www.tmz.com/2020/09/30/kylie-jenner-bikini-pic-thirst-trap-vote-campaign-traffic/
- https://www.tmz.com/2020/10/22/celebrities-encourage-voter-registration-kevin-bacon-sterling-k-brown-keke-palmer-enough-collective/
- https://www.buzzfeed.com/stephenlaconte/taylor-swift-instagram-voting-resources-2020-election
- https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/10/politics/tiktok-voter-registration/index.html
- https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/9450200/christina-aguilera-liz-phair-your-voice-your-vote-twitter-campaign
- https://www.vice.com/en/article/k7a8aa/pretty-much-every-celebrity-encouraged-people-to-vote-this-year-did-it-work
- https://deadline.com/2020/09/cw-announces-new-initiative-cw-vote-actually-to-encourage-viewers-to-make-their-voices-heard-in-2020-1234574255/
- https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/the-cw-launches-voting-campaign-to-encourage-all-voices-to-be-heard
- https://news.artnet.com/art-world/plan-your-vote-artist-campaign-2020-1907137
- https://www.forbes.com/sites/civicnation/1/#3bf4bf57554e
- https://www.cbsnews.com/news/2020-daily-trail-markers-all-eyes-on-melania-trump-as-she-headlines-rnc-night-2-2020-08-25/
- https://www.thrillist.com/news/nation/shake-shack-free-fries-vote-early-day-2020
- https://www.marketplace.org/2020/10/01/why-more-workers-are-getting-paid-time-off-on-election-day/
- https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/article246092425.html JohnStreams1234 (talk) 17:29, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
Financial Inaccuracies[edit]
 | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined. |
- What I think should be changed (include citations):
The following paragraph is inaccurate. I have edited the paragraph to only include correct, verifiable information.
Original Paragraph:
Conflicts in the Organization
Cleaver, who founded Long-Distance Voter, had a reported “cult of personality” among Silicon Valley executives- the main brunt of Vote.org’s donors- based on her previous work in receiving a funding grant from the Knight Foundation.[18] As reported by Vox, her style of leadership and mismanagement of resources led to her termination and subsequent replacement with now-CEO Andrea Hailey.[19] Hailey, an Indianapolis native who founded the Civic Engagement Fund and the Town Hall Project as well as a Pollie Award recipient, began her work with Vote.org in 2010.[20] Her status as CEO of the board was decided based on her previous experience in developing online media and fundraising campaigns with the Dr. Martin Luther King Memorial in 2007.[21] This contentious mishap resulted in a reported $4 million loss in funding between 2019 and 2020, mainly due to the loss of partnerships with ViacomCBS, the League of Conservation Voters Education Fund, and the Voter Participation Center.[19] The lack of support of Vote.org by Silicon Valley donors and instances of mismanagement regarding advertisement in 2020 caused another subsequent lost of $1 million in Vote.org’s total revenue.
Corrected paragraph:
Leadership Transition
Cleaver, who founded Long-Distance Voter, was terminated in 2019. [18] As reported by Vox, her style of leadership and mismanagement of resources led to her termination and subsequent replacement with now-CEO Andrea Hailey.[19] Hailey, an Indianapolis native who founded the Civic Engagement Fund and the Town Hall Project as well as a Pollie Award recipient, began her work with Vote.org in 2018 as a Board Member.[20] The Board decided to hire Hailey as CEO based on her previous experience in developing online media and fundraising campaigns with the Dr. Martin Luther King Memorial in 2007.[21] In 2020, Vote.org raised over $18 million dollars, more than any other year combined, and ran the largest get-out-the-vote program in its history. [1] [2]
- Why it should be changed:
The paragraph provides inaccurate information based on a single source unfamiliar with the organizations financial situation. Vote.org’s 2020 IRS Form 990 shows that the organization not only did not lose a million dollars in fundraising, but in fact raised $18m which is more than it raised in all previous years combined. Additionally, the three cited "lost" partnerships are either 1) still in effect (VPC), 2) only a prospect (Viacom), never made a contribution, and as such, should not be considered "lost," or 3) no longer a funder (LCVEF), but their total contribution in 2018 was $500,000, not a recurring donation, and was easily overcome by the over $18 million in revenue to the organization in 2020.
JohnStreams1234 (talk) 15:26, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
Not done for now: Hi. I deleted the second part of the latter statement, because it was not supported by the references cited.
As for your concerns re Vox, that's not really an issue here. I'd be happy to provide a balanced view if you provide any quality sources that contradict what's been said, but as it stands there doesn't appear to be anything blatantly misleading about the paragraph. PK650 (talk) 10:31, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
- Hi, thank you for making that update.
- I'd like to address the following sentence piece by piece: "This contentious mishap resulted in a reported $4 million loss in funding between 2019 and 2020, mainly due to the loss of partnerships with ViacomCBS, the League of Conservation Voters Education Fund, and the Voter Participation Center."
- The first part, about the $4 million loss, is clearly refuted by Vote.org's IRS forms 990. The 2019 990 shows $1.1 million in revenue. Source: https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/262094990
- The 2020 990 shows $18+ million in revenue. Source: https://www.guidestar.org/profile/26-2094990 and https://www.vote.org/financials/
- The CEO transition took place at the end of 2019, so the numbers suggest not a $4 million loss, but a $17 million gain aligned to the timeline of the CEO transition. Cleaver was fired in August 2019 (per the Vox article).
- With respect to Viacom CBS, I'd point you to Vote.org's partnership with The CW Network, owned by Viacom, as evidence that that partnership is still very much intact under new leadership. Source: https://deadline.com/2021/08/the-cw-launches-freedom-to-vote-initiative-combat-voter-suppression-1234810443/ , second source: https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/567635-cw-stars-call-for-congress-to-act-to-protect-voting-rights/
- With respect to Voter Participation Center, please see their 2020 990 for evidence that that partnership remains intact under the new leadership. VPC paid Vote.org $200,000 in 2020 to partner on a GOTV billboard effort. Source: https://www.voterparticipation.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/2020-VPC-Amended-Form-990_PD-1.pdf
- With respect to LCV, Vote.org is no longer officially a partner. But this happens all the time with nonprofits, grants are not automatically renewed, priorities change constantly. Given all of the above information refuting the "loss of partnerships" and funding theories advanced by the Vox article, we hope that the balanced view you can offer will also reflect this fact when considering whether League of Conservation Voters is worthy of a mention in the face of clear evidence. Another suggestion, if helpful, is that if you'd like to keep League of Conservation Voters on there, perhaps listing some of the 1,000+ new partnerships that Vote.org launched in 2020 and beyond could provide readers with some balance and perspective. See these sources for more on those:
- http://www.blackstarnews.com/us-politics/elections/campaign-legal-center-and-voteorg-partner-to-help-felons-access
- https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/todaysdebate/2020/01/17/2020-voting-because-why-usa-today-network-launching-drive-editorials-debates/4459998002/
- https://www.latimes.com/espanol/california/articulo/2020-01-22/conozca-sus-derechos-como-puedo-restaurar-mi-derecho-al-voto-si-estuve-encarcelado
- https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/companies-pledge-give-workers-time-vote-72649828
- https://blavity.com/why-we-cant-honor-our-ancestors-without-exercising-the-rights-for-which-they-fought?category1=opinion&category2=news
- https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/05/stacey-abrams-michelle-obama-urge-voters-join-fight-protect-access-ballot/
- https://www.forbes.com/sites/annefield/2020/10/24/how-propel-and-voteorg-helped-register-60000-snap-beneficiaries-to-vote/?sh=14ace5093ea1
- https://www.bemyeyes.com/blog/vote-org
- https://api.whatsapp.com/message/4RESQU2XGBQHM1
- https://www.tmz.com/2020/09/30/kylie-jenner-bikini-pic-thirst-trap-vote-campaign-traffic/
- https://www.tmz.com/2020/10/22/celebrities-encourage-voter-registration-kevin-bacon-sterling-k-brown-keke-palmer-enough-collective/
- https://www.buzzfeed.com/stephenlaconte/taylor-swift-instagram-voting-resources-2020-election
- https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/10/politics/tiktok-voter-registration/index.html
- https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/9450200/christina-aguilera-liz-phair-your-voice-your-vote-twitter-campaign
- https://www.vice.com/en/article/k7a8aa/pretty-much-every-celebrity-encouraged-people-to-vote-this-year-did-it-work
- https://deadline.com/2020/09/cw-announces-new-initiative-cw-vote-actually-to-encourage-viewers-to-make-their-voices-heard-in-2020-1234574255/
- https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/the-cw-launches-voting-campaign-to-encourage-all-voices-to-be-heard
- https://news.artnet.com/art-world/plan-your-vote-artist-campaign-2020-1907137
- https://www.forbes.com/sites/civicnation/1/#3bf4bf57554e
- https://www.cbsnews.com/news/2020-daily-trail-markers-all-eyes-on-melania-trump-as-she-headlines-rnc-night-2-2020-08-25/
- https://www.thrillist.com/news/nation/shake-shack-free-fries-vote-early-day-2020
- https://www.marketplace.org/2020/10/01/why-more-workers-are-getting-paid-time-off-on-election-day/
- https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/article246092425.html
- I would be very happy to provide other sources on your request. Thanks again! JohnStreams1234 (talk) 17:46, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
- Hi there @PK650,
- I'm just writing to make sure you saw my previous reply. I hope that we have provided you with more than enough information to clarify why the sentence in question is misleading and inaccurate. Let me know if there is any other information we can provide.
- Thank you JohnStreams1234 (talk) 15:32, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
- Hi. Again, please note I am not against modifying the wording, it is just that you keep providing IRS forms as referencing to support fundraising figures. You need independent and reliable sourcing that directly contradicts the Vox article used in that paragraph for me to be able to consider giving weight to those contrary assertions, if they exist. PK650 (talk) 05:03, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
- Hi there,
- First, I'd like to be clear that I am a Vote.org staff member and therefore have intimate knowledge of the accuracy of the information I'm providing you. Second, Guidestar and ProPublica are independent reliable sources. They exist to make nonprofit finances more transparent, and they are the best sources for Vote.org's financial information. The documents cited provide clear evidence refuting each point in question, point by point. That said, I have sourced other information wherever available, per your request, using new sources in addition to those already provided:
- I'd like to address the following sentence from the wikipedia article piece by piece: "This contentious mishap resulted in a reported $4 million loss in funding between 2019 and 2020, mainly due to the loss of partnerships with ViacomCBS, the League of Conservation Voters Education Fund, and the Voter Participation Center."
- The first part, about the $4 million loss, is clearly refuted by Vote.org's IRS forms 990. The 2019 990 shows $1.1 million in revenue. Source: https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/262094990
- The 2020 990 shows $18+ million in revenue. Source: https://www.guidestar.org/profile/26-2094990 and https://www.vote.org/financials/
- The CEO transition took place at the end of 2019, so the numbers suggest not a $4 million loss, but a $17 million gain aligned to the timeline of the CEO transition. Cleaver was fired in August 2019 (per the Vox article). New Source: https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/262094990. Additional new source: impact.vote.org
- With respect to Viacom CBS, I'd point you to Vote.org's partnership with The CW Network, owned by Viacom, as evidence that that partnership is still very much intact under new leadership. Source: https://deadline.com/2021/08/the-cw-launches-freedom-to-vote-initiative-combat-voter-suppression-1234810443/ , second source: https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/567635-cw-stars-call-for-congress-to-act-to-protect-voting-rights/
- With respect to Voter Participation Center, please see their 2020 990 for evidence that that partnership remains intact under the new leadership. VPC paid Vote.org $200,000 in 2020 to partner on a GOTV billboard effort. Source: https://www.voterparticipation.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/2020-VPC-Amended-Form-990_PD-1.pdf
- With respect to LCV, Vote.org is no longer officially a partner. But this happens all the time with nonprofits, grants are not automatically renewed, priorities change constantly. Given all of the above information refuting the "loss of partnerships" and funding theories advanced by the Vox article, we hope that the balanced view you can offer will also reflect this fact when considering whether League of Conservation Voters is worthy of a mention in the face of clear evidence. Another suggestion, if helpful, is that if you'd like to keep League of Conservation Voters on there, perhaps listing some of the 1,000+ new partnerships that Vote.org launched in 2020 and beyond could provide readers with some balance and perspective. See these sources for more on those, all of which are independent and reliable:
- http://www.blackstarnews.com/us-politics/elections/campaign-legal-center-and-voteorg-partner-to-help-felons-access
- https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/todaysdebate/2020/01/17/2020-voting-because-why-usa-today-network-launching-drive-editorials-debates/4459998002/
- https://www.latimes.com/espanol/california/articulo/2020-01-22/conozca-sus-derechos-como-puedo-restaurar-mi-derecho-al-voto-si-estuve-encarcelado
- https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/companies-pledge-give-workers-time-vote-72649828
- https://blavity.com/why-we-cant-honor-our-ancestors-without-exercising-the-rights-for-which-they-fought?category1=opinion&category2=news
- https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/05/stacey-abrams-michelle-obama-urge-voters-join-fight-protect-access-ballot/
- https://www.forbes.com/sites/annefield/2020/10/24/how-propel-and-voteorg-helped-register-60000-snap-beneficiaries-to-vote/?sh=14ace5093ea1
- https://www.bemyeyes.com/blog/vote-org
- https://api.whatsapp.com/message/4RESQU2XGBQHM1
- https://www.tmz.com/2020/09/30/kylie-jenner-bikini-pic-thirst-trap-vote-campaign-traffic/
- https://www.tmz.com/2020/10/22/celebrities-encourage-voter-registration-kevin-bacon-sterling-k-brown-keke-palmer-enough-collective/
- https://www.buzzfeed.com/stephenlaconte/taylor-swift-instagram-voting-resources-2020-election
- https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/10/politics/tiktok-voter-registration/index.html
- https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/9450200/christina-aguilera-liz-phair-your-voice-your-vote-twitter-campaign
- https://www.vice.com/en/article/k7a8aa/pretty-much-every-celebrity-encouraged-people-to-vote-this-year-did-it-work
- https://deadline.com/2020/09/cw-announces-new-initiative-cw-vote-actually-to-encourage-viewers-to-make-their-voices-heard-in-2020-1234574255/
- https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/the-cw-launches-voting-campaign-to-encourage-all-voices-to-be-heard
- https://news.artnet.com/art-world/plan-your-vote-artist-campaign-2020-1907137
- https://www.forbes.com/sites/civicnation/1/#3bf4bf57554e
- https://www.cbsnews.com/news/2020-daily-trail-markers-all-eyes-on-melania-trump-as-she-headlines-rnc-night-2-2020-08-25/
- https://www.thrillist.com/news/nation/shake-shack-free-fries-vote-early-day-2020
- https://www.marketplace.org/2020/10/01/why-more-workers-are-getting-paid-time-off-on-election-day/
- https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/article246092425.html
- Thank you! JohnStreams1234 (talk) 17:58, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
- Hi. Again, please note I am not against modifying the wording, it is just that you keep providing IRS forms as referencing to support fundraising figures. You need independent and reliable sourcing that directly contradicts the Vox article used in that paragraph for me to be able to consider giving weight to those contrary assertions, if they exist. PK650 (talk) 05:03, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
Factual inaccuracies[edit]
 | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
- What I think should be changed:
I'd like to request a change to the following sentence: "This contentious mishap resulted in a reported $4 million loss in funding between 2019 and 2020, mainly due to the loss of partnerships with ViacomCBS, the League of Conservation Voters Education Fund, and the Voter Participation Center." I am primarily concerned with this sentence because it is factually inaccurate, but much of the information I provide below can also be used to inform any changes you deem appropriate in other sections of the article.
- Why it should be changed:
I will address factual inaccuracies piece by piece. The first part, about the $4 million loss, is clearly refuted by Vote.org's IRS forms 990. The 2019 990 shows $1.1 million in revenue. https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/262094990</
The 2020 990 shows $18+ million in revenue. https://www.guidestar.org/profile/26-2094990 and https://www.vote.org/financials/
The CEO transition took place at the end of 2019, so the numbers suggest not a $4 million loss, but a $17 million gain aligned to the timeline of the CEO transition. Cleaver was fired in August 2019 (per the Vox article).
With respect to Viacom CBS, I'd point you to Vote.org's partnership with The CW Network, owned by Viacom, as evidence that that partnership is still very much intact under new leadership. Source: https://deadline.com/2021/08/the-cw-launches-freedom-to-vote-initiative-combat-voter-suppression-1234810443/, second source: https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/567635-cw-stars-call-for-congress-to-act-to-protect-voting-rights/
With respect to Voter Participation Center, please see their 2020 990 for evidence that that partnership remains intact under the new leadership. VPC paid Vote.org $200,000 in 2020 to partner on a GOTV billboard effort. https://www.voterparticipation.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/2020-VPC-Amended-Form-990_PD-1.pdf
With respect to LCV, Vote.org is no longer officially a partner. But this happens all the time with nonprofits, grants are not automatically renewed, priorities change constantly. Given all of the above information refuting the "loss of partnerships" and funding theories advanced by the Vox article, we hope that the balanced view you can offer will also reflect this fact when considering whether League of Conservation Voters is worthy of a mention in the face of clear evidence. Another suggestion, if helpful, is that if you'd like to keep League of Conservation Voters on there, perhaps listing some of the 1,000+ new partnerships that Vote.org launched in 2020 and beyond could provide readers with some balance and perspective. See these sources for more on those:
JohnStreams1234 (talk) 15:20, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
Partly done:- The $4M in lost funding does not refer to "the opposite of profit", but "lost" in the sense of opportunity cost:
Just before she was fired that August, Cleaver even tried to leverage a potential donation, convincing a donor named Sage Weil to pledge $4 million to Vote.org, which would have been the biggest gift ever to the nonprofit — but it was conditional on her remaining the group’s CEO.
- Viacom CBS didn't exist yet when this happened (the merger had just started that same August). Viacom do appear to have pulled out of a planned deal; that isn't changed by the fact that another company they own a controlling stake in made a separate deal a year later. This article as currently written does say± that part of the $4M was from them, which is wrong.
- No dispute on the other two organizations; Vox is too vague on what actually happened there to claim it with certainty.
- (Also, hid the list of sources in a collapsing thing for readability. Please don't dump several screenfuls of bare links on a page.) ℰmi1y⧼T·C⧽ 09:51, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
Tag removed[edit]
"A major contributor to this article appears to have a close connection with its subject" tag was removed. Several editors have remediated all text written by questioned contributor were deleted, rewritten, and cited by 3rd party sources to address concerns. Gumballhead1of2 (talk) 11:25, 1 February 2024 (UTC)