Talk:Zazas

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Zazas are Kurds[edit]

Zaza Kurds in Diyarbakir (1881)

I'm a Zaza and Zazas are Kurds. You are doing vandalism by deleting reliable sources Neribij (talk) 17:35, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
The Zaza are not Kurd! Encyclopedia of the Stateless Nations: The Zazas are an Indo-Iranian nation ethnically and historically related to the Kurds. ... Many zazas also speak Kurdish or Turkish as second and third languages. --Kmoksy (talk) 18:16, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Turkey: What Everyone Needs to Know by Andrew Finkel: Although (to further complicate matters) not all Zaza speakers identify themselves as Kurds. --Kmoksy (talk) 18:53, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
"Speakers of Dimili are Kurds psychologically, socially, culturally, economically, and politically."
A grammar of Dimili (know as Zaza) by Terry Lynn Todd. 1985, p. vi Neribij (talk) 20:18, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

(First of all, I don't like to talk about politic in Wikipedia, but unfortunalety, users as Kmoksy are here just for such political discussions. Due to this, I must answer like that)

@Kmoksy, I think you are trying to be funny :) There is a Zaza who says, we are Kurds and you are telling, no! no! You are not Kurd! :D Seriously? What do you want my turkish friend? :) Your turkish state tried to assimilate and divide Kurds for more than 90 years. Yes, unfortunately you assimilated some of us. But do you still believe that you will be successful and assimilate/divide all Kurds? That will remain just as a dream! You didn't comment and care all the time when you deleted information about Kurdishness of Zazas in the article. You showed us that your edits are just political, you don't care the reality or sources. (Your own website shows your nationalistic POV. P.S. for users who don't know the flag CcC)

Before you show us unreliable sources such as "James Minahan" (Who is this person? He has written: "...three groups of Zaza nation - Zaza, Kizilbash and Goran." Is this a joke or what? :) ) , try to respect reliable sources and don't falsify them please! There are enough reliable sources which proves Kurdish identity of Zazas in article. Of course , if you dont delete anymore.

The second source which you gave is like that "Turkish Kurds (Kurds in Turkey) are also mainly speakers of Kurmanji but there are also Zaza speakers, although (to further complicate matters) not all Zaza speakers identify themselves as Kurds. Don't falsify sources please!--Gomada (talk) 10:39, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

@Kmoksy, You are really become funny. This is not Turkish vikipedi in which a lot of articles about Kurds (Kurmanj, Soran, Zaza, etc.) filled with unreliable information by Turkish nationalist users. Please don't changes reliable sources in the article. Before doing this let us to discuss it. It seems that you are changing the article according to your biased and nationalist ideas. You could'nt determine our identity. It is not your duty. We know who we are, better than you. So, please learn to discuss the changes with other users, before you do it.--Laser Perşikita (talk) 23:58, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Zazas are obviously free to identify themselves as Kurds. If most, or even a substantional minority, of the Zazas do so, this should be certainly mentioned in the article. It could also be that the Zazas have been historically lumped into the same category as Kurds by outsiders. If this is so, this should be mentioned in the article also. However, there is also the fact that Zazaki is most definitely not a dialect of Kurdish, but a related Iranian language. So presenting Zazas as a subset of Kurds just like Kurmanjis and Soranis is technically incorrect. --Mttll (talk) 04:50, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

@Mttll, your actions and words are contrasting. If you say, Zazas are free to identify themselves as Kurds, why did you delete Selahattin Demirtaş from this article? By the way, this article "Zaza people" is not a language article, if you want to talk about zazaki, you should comment on its own article!--Gomada (talk) 12:52, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Because according to reports, Demirtaş seems to be of Zaza origin instead of Kurdish and speaks Zaza but not Kurdish. --Mttll (talk) 08:41, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

According to reports? :) Would you like to translate one of his video in which he says, that he is not Kurdish? :) Here is his official website. He spoke to CNN and said: Because I come from the Kurdish people who have been denied and discriminated... So, my friend. Stop your political discussions and don't try to divide Kurds anymore. Our identity is not concern of Turkish people! And of course don't change articles anymore according to your POV, please!--Gomada (talk) 21:18, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
I never said he didn't identify himself as Kurdish, only that he is Zaza by origin (and not Kurdish-Zaza mixture like others, such as Yılmaz Güney) and by mother language instead of Kurdish. Of course, it is up to him to identify himself as Kurdish regardless. Anyway, just so you know, you are constantly breaching tons of Wikipedia policies in your messages addressing me: Battleground mentality, assumption of bad faith, personal attacks (based on ethnicity/nationality no less). I strongly advise you to stop this. All Wikipedia users are free to edit whichever Wikipedia articles they like to edit. --Mttll (talk) 01:01, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 11 February 2015[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved. EdJohnston (talk) 04:55, 23 February 2015 (UTC)


Zaza people in TurkeyZaza people – I had unilaterally moved the article to its current name. I can't revert it myself, so I'm making this proposal. --Relisted.  — Amakuru (talk) 15:07, 22 February 2015 (UTC) Mttll (talk) 00:50, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

  • Suggest Zazas. When the demonym can be pluralised then this is used as the designation for the people. Its the difference between Arabs, Kurds, etc, and topics such as Turkish people. "Zazas" gets far more Google results than "Zaza People" but, to some extent, this may be affected to references such as to the phonetic sound "zazas". GregKaye 11:46, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Also note previous opposition to the current title here.  AjaxSmack  02:23, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Vandalism by User:Kmoksy[edit]

User:Kmoksy is vandalising the sources without any explanation.--Gomada (talk) 09:22, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Two pages[edit]

Why do we have to pages (Zaza people and Zaza people in Turkey)? First of all the two pages are contradicting each other. Secondly, the second one is unnecessary when most Zazas live in Turkey. --Ahmetyal (talk) 16:10, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Agreed. Zaza people in Turkey needs to be merged into "Zaza people". Khestwol (talk) 22:33, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
Done. I restored "Zaza people in Turkey" to its former status as a redirect to "Zaza people". Khestwol (talk) 22:44, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

WP:NPOV[edit]

This page is not WP:NPOV:

  • "ALMOST ALL speakers of the Zaza language consider themselves as KURDS and they are often counted as such by international statistics and surveys as part of the KURDISH people"
  • "Europe as part of the KURDISH diaspora"
  • Languages: "Zazaki (Dimli), KURMANJI KURDISH"
  • "The exact number of Zaza KURDS"
  • "Zaza KURDS in Diyarbakir"
  • "Zaza nationalism: In recent years, in which the question about political and human rights for Kurds in Turkey came more to spotlight, a new nationalistic movement was formed by a small group of people in the diaspora."
  • etc.

These are the Kurdish nationalist terminologies. --Kmoksy (talk) 18:45, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

We should use "Zazas and Kurds" and not "Zazas and Kurmanjis," unless its a quote etc. --Ahmetyal (talk) 23:03, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

@My Turkish friend Kmoksy, do you know how the Kurds who live in Turkey name themselves? The word of Kurd is not equal Kurmanj. If you dont know, learn it! What a pity that, you live with those Kurmanj Kurds in Turkey, but you don't know their name. The word of Kurds includes Soran Kurds (as well) who live in Iraq and Iran. Is there any Soran Kurd in Turkey? But I know you from turkish Wikipedia and how you have been banned because of your nationalistic contributions. You don't want to improve this article. You just want to see your political point of view here. Do you have any other argument to disscuss here? The name of a nation is of course a topic related to nationalism. Do you have problem with the name of Kurdish groups? Do you want to forbid the name of my people as your Turkish republic did for long years? So, please don't bring your political arguments here. Respect people how they name themselves!--Gomada (talk) 13:00, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

Fiction image[edit]

This is a fiction image and not encyclopedic. --Kmoksy (talk) 01:56, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 5 May 2015[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved, clear consensus. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 19:02, 11 May 2015 (UTC)



Zaza peopleZazas – "Zazas" is the WP:COMMONNAME for these people per Ngram. "Zaza people" is used extremely rarely. "Zazas" is an unambiguous and plural demonym. Per WP:ETHNICGROUP#Ethnic groups. And it is more WP:CONCISE than "Zaza people". Per Kurds, Pashtuns, Tajiks, Koreans, Punjabis, Germans, Swedes, Russians, Serbians, and many other titles of similar articles. Khestwol (talk) 07:37, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

  • Support per nom GregKaye 10:17, 5 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Support--Kmoksy (talk) 10:49, 5 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Support per above. Khestwol (talk) 11:14, 5 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Support per above. --Ahmetyal (talk) 18:21, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Zazaki language[edit]

Note, a similar move discussion is now open at Zazaki language's talk page. Khestwol (talk) 23:40, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Political edits[edit]

This and Category:Zazas edits are political assimilation of the Kurdish nationalism edits. --Kmoksy (talk) 19:17, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Kurdish nationalism? :D Will you try to read sources? Is Martin van Bruinessen a Kurdish nationalist too? :d Malmîsanij is a Zaza scholar. Respect to sources! Do you want to fill the article with your turkic propaganda?--Gomada (talk) 21:49, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
You can't call sources unreliable, just because you disagree with them. (I'm refering to Arakelova) --Ahmetyal (talk) 21:55, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
Only Arakelova? This is important claim. Others? --Kmoksy (talk) 22:09, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
I've added to more works. --Ahmetyal (talk) 22:48, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

This edit is Kurdish nationalist vandalism. --Kmoksy (talk) 22:26, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

A source for you:Virtually all Zaza speakers consider themselves, and are considered by the Kurmanji speakers, as Kurds. -Kurdish nationalist(!) Martin van Bruinessen :D--Gomada (talk) 22:28, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

This template edit is a Kurdish nationalism. --Kmoksy (talk) 00:34, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 9 May 2015[edit]

Remove Marxist–Leninist Communist Party (Turkey) and Revolutionary People's Liberation Party–Front from 'see also' section. No relation to the page. Also File:Zaza rebels dersim.jpg will be deleted from Wikipedia the day after tomorrow. Hence its best to remove the file. Ahmetyal (talk) 12:50, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

It's the easiest way to protect the page. Instead of it, the user:Kmoksy should be warned. The article was protected in the end of January too , because of POV push of that user. In short, if he will not be warned, he will keep to vandalise the page. He doesn't care sources or policy of Wikipedia.--Gomada (talk) 19:01, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
I've removed those two links. I'm not sure why the image needs deleting? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 18:55, 11 May 2015 (UTC)