User:BigHaz/ESC Precedent
As part of my work on the Eurovision Song Contest, I'm currently involved in writing up articles for each and every Contest entry. These are occasionally nominated for deletion, however none have been so (one was deleted in a manner separate to AfD, but that was due to my inaction rather than any precedent). Herein is the collected precedent regarding Eurovision Song Contest entries, which will be expanded upon as and when other entries are proposed for deletion:
Notability of Songs
[edit]Established Notability
[edit]- Winning songs are inherently notable: While this has never been tested per se, it stands to reason per WP:MUSIC/SONG as the winning entry Has won a major award
- Individual entries with a notable backstory are notable: See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Du Bist where a song which proved controversial for its length and possible authorship was held to be notable. Note further that this notability does not relate to the success the song had (it had very little). The fact that the nomination was made by a user who has since been banned is immaterial.
- Individual entries are notable: See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gimme, where a song which was uncontroversial was held to be notable as it had won a national-level prize by being able to compete at an international level where it was heard by a large audience. The debate about the scope of that audience is preserved there as well. Again, note that the comparative lack of success of the song does not impinge its notability, as this is derived from its participation, rather than its position.
- Individual entries experiencing no success at the Contest are notable: See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Où Aller in relation to a song which finished second-last. The fact that the song appeared at the Contest is deemed to trump its lack of success at an international level.
- Note: This reasoning was slightly challenged at this AfD, which ended with no consensus. The challenge was based on two faulty premises: (A) That because other second-place-getters don't have articles, neither should this one (incidentally, just under 50% of all second-place-getters have articles, and most of those remaining at present are from the United Kingdom). (B) That the clause in WP:MUSIC/SONG reading a particularly well-known song from a piece of musical theater, radio, film or television in fact should be taken as a theme song or other song associated with a specific production, something which is not borne out anywhere apart from that AfD comment. The debate also touched on the subjective nature of a "signature song", which this one is (at least in lieu of any serious argument otherwise) and the flaw in the song notability proposed guideline dealing with "small or medium-sized countries". I note here that WP:BAND contains a footnote reading There are, at present, no precise definitions of a "small", "medium" or "large" country in this context. However, a very limited definition of "small" will generally be used, excluding only a few of the world's smallest countries. This would potentially mean that Malta is in fact large enough to qualify. There are of course systemic bias issues here, as a view that Malta is too small a country would mean that a French or German entry is able to be notable by doing much less (charting at home) than a Maltese or Andorran song (which would have to chart somewhere else).
Propositions yet to be tested
[edit]The most important proposition yet to be tested is whether or not a song selected for but not performed at a Contest is notable. Boys And Girls has been speedied in the past, but this was due to a belief by the speedying admin and the relatively poor-quality article at the time, rather than anything more binding. The recreated version was prodded and I dealt with those concerns personally. At this vantage point, it appears that such songs would be notable, as they won a national contest. The fact that they were not then performed internationally may cause this notability to be diminished, however.
Unusual result of these precedents
[edit]Note that, because the song itself is notable, it is in fact quite possible to have an article on a notable song with a redlinked singer. This does not mean that any individual singer at the Contest is non-notable, though. It merely means that the project of writing up the songs is progressing faster than that of writing up the singers.
Notability of Singers and Bands
[edit]Established Notability
[edit]- Performers winning the Contest are notable
Per WP:BIO, anyone achieving renown or notoriety for their involvement in newsworthy events is notable. Furthermore, anyone who made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in their specific field is also notable. Contest winners easily pass the first of these criteria (particularly in recent years, with the Contest being treated as a camp novelty worldwide - Elena Paparizou and Lordi have both been the answers to questions on Australian gameshows). The second criterion is also obvious, as ESC winners are very well-known in the subculture they represent.
Furthermore, per WP:BAND, a winner will almost certainly have had a charted hit on any national music chart, in at least one large or medium-sized country (there may theoretically prove to be exceptions to this rule, consider the potential situation of Malta or Andorra winning the Contest with a song ignored by all other charts, but certainly the 51 years of the Contest to date have not thrown this up to my knowledge). In all bar the most unusual cases, winners will also have gone on an international concert tour, or a national concert tour in at least one large or medium-sized country, reported in notable and verifiable sources, been featured in multiple non-trivial published works in reliable and reputable media and been placed in rotation nationally by any major radio network. Of course, trumping all of this is the fact that they will have won or placed in a major music competition. Indeed, one could argue that the victory means that they will have won a major music award, such as a Grammy, Juno or Mercury Music Award.
- Performers not winning but going on to have a successful career are notable
Entrants such as Julio Iglesias, Vanilla Ninja, Cliff Richard, Olivia Newton-John, Alla Pugacheva, T.A.T.u. and a raft of others are inherently notable as well. Note, however, that in all bar the most astonishing of cases, their notability is derived from exploits outside the Contest.
Still to be properly tested
[edit]- Performers not winning the Contest are notable
This has not been entirely tested to my satisfaction, but someone such as Gina G or a band such as Texas Lightning certainly appears to be notable. This notability is derived from the criteria that they have won or placed in a major music competition. While one can argue semantics that last place is a placing, my contention is in fact that winning the national preselection is the competition in question. The winner of a Melodifestivalen, for example, has done particularly well for themselves, even if they place dead last at the ESC. Even the winner of the Andorran preselection (no offence to Andorrans, they just happen to be one of the smallest entrant countries) has been selected as the best singer/song combination in the country that year. It's a level of exposure at least approximating an American Idol or related victory. One can also argue for the wishy-washy formulation that any and all ESC entrants have made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in their specific field, since it would be impossible for Every Song Is A Cry For Love to have been the 1000th song performed had not 999 other songs been performed beforehand.
Special Cases
[edit]Debutant performers for a specific country would appear to be notable, since the debut of a country in any international competition is notable and those who are involved in this debut are automatically notable in other fields.
Perversely, a performer receiving nul points or otherwise placing last in the Contest of that year has an almost assured claim on notability. Fud Leclerc, for example, is more well-known for his unwanted distinction of earning the first zero when singing Ton Nom than anything else he contributed. This has been backed up by this AfD on a stunningly unsuccessful Lithuanian entrant.
The notability of "joke" or otherwise goofy performances is somewhat open for debate, however most of the pranksters are notable for other reasons anyway (see Alf Poier, Silvia Night and Stefan Raab), so this should resolve that issue.