User:Littleolive oil/Evidence SexieSadie
Sexie Sadie: Song in the Beatles section of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi
[edit]Background and perspective
[edit]Sexie Sadie, a song written by John Lennon, was written about Maharishi Mahesh Yogi’s (MMY) alleged behaviour with women. MMY was a spiritual leader and Hindu monk whose life work spanned over 50 years. The Beatles spent only a few months of that 50 years with him, and in that time wrote many songs. This was one. Deciding the MMY article must have this one song included in the section in the Beatles’ already relatively long section in relationship to the time and importance the Beatles had in MMY ‘s life is a subjective decision. As well, the section already had content referring to MMY’s alleged behaviour with woman during the Beatles’ visit. I did have concerns with how much of the Beatles content there was and the wording of the content. My position was that while this article was a WP:BLP we had to be more “sensitive” and “do no harm” in this section. Information on the “womanizing” described by the song in addition to what else was in the article on the “womaizing” was overkill, and I argued that point. As well, the living Beatles had retracted some of their comments on MMY, so care had to be taken on how much and how often we were making this particular point. (This thread outlines the steps I made in reference to this content and which Will Beback refers to in his Sexie Sadie Saga.) [1].
Other editers did not agree with my position so after discussion, I agreed to inclusion of the song. After MMY’s death although I still believed using the song was overkill to make the point about womanizing behaviours, the situation was/is less serious since the article is no longer a BLP. My position is, and has been, that the song is superffluous to the information on the article which already describes the controversy surrounding woman. This is not an opinion based on some TM org. position, its my position as an editor and takes into account WP: WEIGHT per the section itself, and the relarionship in importance to the multip[le sources on the life of the person as a whole. I can cerrtainly find sources as Will Beback says in which the press discuss the song in terms of MMY’s life, and I can find lots that don’t. Its a point for discussion.
Will Beback's mischaracterization of BigWeeBoy's rewrite of the Beatles section, and the infamous Sexie Sadie Saga
[edit]Thread: [2]
BigWeeBoy comments the Beatles section is possibly too long and would like to do a rewrite. No one responds so he creates and posts the rewrite in a sand box, and then posts on the discussion page asking for comments. There was nothing private or sneaky about BigWeeBoy’s (BWB) rewrite as Will says. He removed content some of which was on Sexie Sadie, but also removed Across The Universe a song positive to MMY.
Outline of the time sequence and thread of the discussion referencing the time sequence:
[edit]Thread: [3]
▪ Sept 26: BWB - Suggests section is too long. Asks for comments. No comments
▪ Oct 8: BWB - Advises he will rewrite. One comment to go ahead
▪ Oct 28 and Oct 30: BWB - Notifies of rewrite in sand box, twice asks for feedback. No comments.
▪ Nov 4: BWB - Notifies he has moved rewrite into main space. No comments
▪ Nov 23: Kbob - sees and edits the rewrite
▪ Jan 14: Will Beback - asks why Sexie Sadie section has been removed.
Thread and sequence of discussion, following Will Beback’s realization the song is on the cutting room floor
[edit]Thread [4]
In a discussion on removal of content on Sexie Sadie, Will Beback badgers BigWeeBoy, ignoring this good faith attempt on BigWeeBoy’s part to get input [5] He continues to demand a reason for deletion.[6]. BWB responds[7]. I request to reopen the discussion [8]and ask for editor input [9]
Will Bbeback implies content is removed because no one is watching.[10] Repeats again asking why content has been removed adding its a poor reflection on anyone agreeing with the move. I request discussion. Will still says there is no explanation despite BWB's attempts to explain. [11] Will seems to ignore BWB comments and continue to insist on his own version of what happened. Bwb's final comment [12] Will brings the issue up on the COIN with his version of what happened again asking why the song was deleted. [13]. At what point does one demanding question repeated multiple times, and despite obvious good faith attempts to comply with Wikipedia in terms of the writing/input process become harassment?
Will further mischaracterizes me, assuming that in asking for editor input I am trying to control a vote on the Sexie Sadie material. [14] In fact, my position is that I refuse to take the responsibility for adding the content with out other editor input both for and against the addition given the environement on the TM articles, which is not necessarily friendly. The material over time has become a hot bed of contention. Discussion with Will Beback became long and drawn out not because anyone refused to readd the content, but because as the thread shows Will Beback mischaracterized BigWeeBoy’s attempts to rewrite the section as a deliberate deletion of the Sexie Sadie material, and nothing BWB could say would deter Will Beback from pressing BWB on the issue.