User talk:71.112.240.125

Sorry you don't believe me

I did not have time to find and link to this previous discussion as I was heading out for the afternoon here. Please read Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Christianity/Noticeboard/Archive 11#Time for a formal agreement. That is a formal discussion about when "Roman Catholic" should be used and when "Catholic" should be used. The decision was, and correct me if I'm misreading it, "Catholic" is not the common name in most cases and so it will not be used and "Roman Catholic" will be. Most Protestant, and in this case, Anabaptist, authors refer to the denomination as "Roman Catholic", and so it is the common name in that domain, however, "Catholic" is the common name within its own denomination. The decision was also to leave the preferred wording based on how the article was written as the subject matter experts would have used the correct naming convention for the denomination in question. In cases where it's wrong, a discussion should ensue on the article's talk page. If you disagree with that process, feel free to raise it at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Christianity/Noticeboard. Walter Görlitz (talk) 07:00, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

It's not a matter of "believing" you (note that with this portion of your POV displayed as such, it is clear you somehow seem to have attempted to cast yourself as the sole authority on the subject at hand - which seems to directly derive from that error of logic so often committed by registered wp editors against those who choose to remain, **as is their right**, non-registered). More accurately, rather, we simply disagree.

The content found at your link is certainly interesting, but what you're terming a "formal discussion" looks more to me like a casual dialogue, mostly between two wp editors, with a couple of others checking in on occasion; this would hardly stand as a broadly accepted, universal guideline.

However, there is an even larger context that you are missing and that there is a world outside of wp, a world that does not recognize wp as the sole chronicler of all that exists, however hard that is to grasp by the more insular and embedded editors here. To that end, there exists a common traditional and legal convention that holds that the official titles of recognizable bodies are generally determined by said bodies and are recognized as such. The church in question titles itself the 'Catholic Church' because that term was used interchangeably with the term, 'Christian Church', by the Church Fathers far *before* the various splits and schisms. Many don't realize this fact while others do, yet some of those who actually do realize this fact also choose to obfuscate rather than admit to it, because to do so would undermine their agenda.

The early Christian Church was alternatively referred to as the 'Catholic Church' and the 'Christian Church' in various discussions and writings between Church Fathers but was never referred to as the "Roman" Catholic Church until some time after a national king decided his desire to marry another took precedence over 1500 years of Canon Law, which could not provide marital annulment simply for the purpose of fulfilling a gender preference with regard to royal inheritance. This church was understood as Christ's earthly investment to his flock, continues to this day and is still officially titled 'The Catholic Church', with over one billion adherents worldwide.

However, any acknowledgement of this official title does not preclude, oppose or ignore the idea that there are disagreements on the part of some Christians as to what correctly defines catholicity. Conversely, one does not succeed in what comes down to ham-fisted attempts to marginalize and diminish said church to a mere regional construct by suddenly departing from well over a thousand years of established concordance. Henry was, above all, a shrewd politician and despite his public attempts to link his struggles to a higher plane, his concerns were solely temporal, as his foresight allowed him to predict the eventual political struggle over who would eventually rule over all of Europe. For this reason alone, in his way of seeing it, he could ill-afford to lose face and defer to what he wrongly portrayed to be a mere foreign power on a par with his own.

In whatever manner you choose to employ the term 'Roman' today, understand that in the context of the wp Mennonite article, the use of that term for your separate purposes has its roots in the political designs of an English king concerned only with worldly things, distinct from any real application to the spiritual realm.

How convenient it must be for those who attempt to randomly adopt its usage for completely different reasons. However, there are many more who know better. I can only hope that you will someday reconsider. 71.112.240.125 (talk) 10:14, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

First, let me point you to WP:CONSENSUS. If you want to discuss changing the consensus, I pointed you to the correct place to do so.

Second, your sense of history is a bit off. The early church was just that. It was catholic (with a small "c" and used as an adjective) because it's a Latin word varied (see https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/catholic https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/catholic) although Websters claims it's universal https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/catholic that has a different Latin word.

But focusing entirely on history, Mennonites had absolutely nothing to do with English monarchs for nearly 200 years if you exclude the interaction early Anabaptists had with Puritains.

And the main logic is that the church whose leader is based in the Vatican is not the only church with "Catholic" in its name. Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:39, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

March 2020

You may be blocked from editing without further warning the next time you disrupt Wikipedia, as you did at Bob Denver. - FlightTime (open channel) 17:46, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

I am not disrupting anything. The official title of the church in question is the Catholic Church, not the Roman Catholic Church. This is a fact and is not merely the exclusive view of the Catholic faithful. It is people like *you* who are disrupting truth through biased censorship and disrupting free speech conducted within reasonable intellectual limits.71.112.240.125 (talk) 17:54, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

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