User talk:Eddiedeleon/sandbox

Hi Eddie, I think this looks like a good preliminary translation. You've definitely got more than enough content here, so good job! Once you revise your work based on the peer review, you should concentrate on how to integrate this content into the existing English article, as we'll discuss in next week's workshop. Bradhoot (talk) 21:08, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

Hola Eddie,

Perdoname por hacer esta reseña tarde.

Tradujiste mucha información y creo que la cantidad de información disponible para añadir al articulo en inglés lo mejorará bastante.

Unas cosas que puedes cambiar o añadir: 1) En el primer párrafo hay una oración que falta los espacios que quedan entre las comas "that derives from otómitl,4 a word that in the language of the ancient Mexica means one who walks with arrows,5 although" 2) Solamente veo que hay números que representan las citaciónes. En vez de usar los números, hay que utilizar el código para organizar las citaciónes. Por ejemplo, en mi artículo el codigo de una citación se ve así: () Pues, hay que usar el editor del código para verlo. 3) Te aconsejo que incorpores esta oración en el párrafo que le sigue: "In each state, men's and women's clothing varies according to climatic conditions:" 4) Para mí, esta oración no resulta muy claro y también falta unos espacios entre las palabras y las comas: "The diversification of the languages and their geographic expansion from what has been proposed as their urheimat,11 that is, the valley of Tehuacán (currently in Puebla)12 must have occurred after the domestication of the Mesoamerican agricultural trinity, composed of maize, beans and chili." Especificamente, me resulta difícil entender la palabra "urheimat" y su conexión a la geografía. 5) ¿El uso de "Ottoman" es un error?

ElColiflor24 (talk) 14:40, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

Comments on second draft

@Eddiedeleon: Good work on your draft article! Here are some comments to help you revise as you prepare to publish your work by integrating it with the existing English article. Before getting into specific comments, it’s clear that you have put in some serious work in translation, and your translations are generally very good. Now you really need to think about what information should be included in the final article and what should be omitted. You should pay special attention to making sure good citations end up in the English article, and you should also start thinking about how you’re going to integrate what you’ve done with the existing article. You may need to omit some of what you’ve translated, which is already present in the article.

• In the opening paragraph, if it’s already got a “[citation needed]”, you should not include it in your translation unless you’ve got the citation for it.
• Note that the English spelling of the name omits the accent: Otomi. Be sure to style it consistently. You can use the existing English article as a guide for spellings. Same goes for Oto-manguean, which you write a couple different ways.
• It seems that when you copied and pasted, the citations were inserted into the text as just numbers. Please make sure the citations are correctly formatted before you start copying your work into the mainspace.
• Have you checked the references and verified that they are trustworthy? Have you looked for alternative English-language references where possible? Are you confident that the references you’re including are of high quality?
• the gentile names – I don’t think this is the right term, but I also don’t quite know what this means
• “Ethnonym” isn’t a term that’s very common in English. Is there something else this should be called? Or is this in fact the best term?
• The second paragraph in the section Origin of the Otomi Ethnonym doesn’t seem to have anything to do with that section.
• You should make sure to add links throughout, wherever appropriate. Things like the states of Mexico, other ethnic groups, the Mexica, the Nahuatl language, etc., can all be links.
• “According to Duverger's calculation,” Who’s Duverger?
• “sedentarization process” – Is this a technical term? If so, link to it on Wikipedia. If not, maybe a different term.
• “Sierra Madre Oriental” – is this how the name of this mountain range is styled in English, or should it be something different? Same question for “Semidesierto” of Querétaro.
• The second paragraph of the “Ethnic Territory” section (which, by the way, might need a new name), doesn’t seem to have any references.
• “In each state, men's and women's clothing varies according to climatic conditions:” Two things: the hanging colon is strange, and also this doesn’t seem to be about territory any longer, so seems strange in this section. Ultimately, this may not matter, since you’ll be incorporating into the English article. Additionally, some of the description of their dress is hard to understand and may need revision.
• urheimat – What does that mean?
• “they did not migrate from the north but from the north” - ??
• A lot of the History section could use more citations, and some if it is a bit hard to follow due to the level of detail. You might consider reducing or summarizing. Also, note that the existing English article has a kind of long history section already, so you’ll need to plan for how to integrate it.
• “Wright Carr points out that:” – What do they point out?
• You should probably seek out a translation of that quoted section of the Florentine Codex, which has surely been translated before, but it shouldn’t be left in Spanish. Also, the assertion right after it needs a source.
• The whole last paragraph of the history section needs citations.
• I think it’s OK to render mayordomías in Spanish, but you should italicize it and also give a translation in parentheses
• The paragraph beginning “The Franciscan friars built a large convent…” doesn’t appear to have any citations.
• teocalli – What is that?
• encomiendas – Same as mayordomías, these are the endogenous name for this kind of political division, but it should at least be linked, and possibly explained in parentheses, so the reader can understand. Same goes for cabildos.
• The first sentence of the section on the 19th and 20th century definitely needs a citation. Also, I don’t think “peninsulars” is idiomatic.
• What is “juridical personality”? Also “disentailment”?
• You should definitely link to the full article on the Otomi language here in the Language section.
• The second paragraph of the language section has lots of stats, but no in-line citation. Each claim should be attached to its source.

In sum, as I mentioned above, you’ve done a lot of translation here, but now you need to decide what information you’re going to include in the final article, and I would suggest that not everything you’ve written needs to be included. You need to evaluate the quality of the information you’re including. In addition to these changes and the ones I made directly, in our workshop, you should be prepared to think about how you’re going to incorporate your work into the existing article. Where is each piece going to go? How will you integrate things so that you’re not duplicating existing material? Where will you replace existing material with your new material? How might you need to alter your translation to fit in the existing context, including some possible re-writing?

Bradhoot (talk) 22:14, 5 November 2021 (UTC)