User talk:Edilworth

Welcome!

Hello, Edilworth, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Unfortunately, one or more of the pages you created, like Grace welch, may not conform to some of Wikipedia's guidelines for page creation, and may soon be deleted.

There's a page about creating articles you may want to read called Your first article. If you are stuck, and looking for help, please come to the New contributors' help page, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, you can just type {{helpme}} on this page, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Here are a few other good links for newcomers:

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Help request

{{helpme}} How can I improve my article to meet the A7 criteria?

Please add new comments at the end of your talk page
Please always "sign" messages on talk pages, by putting ~~~~ at the end

The article was deleted because it did not meet the notability requirements; for inclusion, an article needs "Significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".

What this generally means is, they need newspaper or magazine articles about the person - not blogs, not stuff created by the person themselves.

I can't actually 'see' the article - I'm not an administrator - but if you want, we could get a copy of the article restored into your user area, so that you could work on it - if you think that you can find sources to prove the 'notability' stuff.

You can read the specific policy in WP:BIO.

Hope that this helps, best wishes, Chzz ► 18:17, 16 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

{{helpme}} I did include significant and reliable sources... This is my article below:

(article moved to subpage; see below; Chzz ► 18:56, 16 July 2009 (UTC)) [reply]

Any advice on what I should change to get it approved? Thanks! edilworth 18:46, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

These are the sources: ^ http://www.cnbc.com/id/19958311/ ^ http://www.ladieswholaunch.com/magazine/grace-welch/2148 ^ http://sfist.com/2006/07/10/a_diaper_change_for_the_better_local_mominventor_grace_welch.php ^ http://www.startupstudio.com/patemm-founder-grace-welch/podcasts/2007/02/02/

edilworth 18:50, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

OK, first, I'll move the article into the user subpage User:Edilworth/Grace Welch. This is in userspace, not a live article, so you can work on it there as much as possible.

As it has been deleted twice, please do ask someone to check it over before you attempt to recreate it.

Now, I'll take a look at those sources, and I'll add further comments here shortly (within the hour).

Cheers, Chzz ► 18:56, 16 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ah - before I do that...I just noticed the above warning about possible 'conflict of interest' - so, I need to know; do you have a conflict of interest regarding this article - ie, are you personally involved with the person, or do you/have you acted in some professional capacity for the person? Chzz ► 19:10, 16 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

{{helpme}} No. There is no conflict of interest. I think the reason that came up is that I accidentaly posted the article on my user page instead of a subpage and they thought the article was about me.

edilworth 19:25, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

OK, great, thanks. Just needed to check. I've removed that from your talk now, and also I removed the speedy deletion notice - you know all about why that happened, so no point it staying there.

I'll look at the refs now. Will respond soon. Cheers, Chzz ► 20:15, 16 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

{{helpme}} How should I go about asking someone to look over the article before I recreate it? edilworth 21:36, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

A helpme thing will do that just fine. I haven't checked the sources yet; been doing other things; but I promise that I will do so very soon. Chzz ► 21:48, 16 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I would really appreciate some feedback on this article in terms of getting it approved. User:Edilworth/Grace Welch

Thanks! edilworth 23:22, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Is he a notable person. If not it won't get approved and be immediately deleted. --Tyw7 (Talk • Contributions) 23:29, 16 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

{{helpme}} I feel that this is a notable person. Grace Welch was just a mom who got an idea and she is now CEO of her own company. She has been on tv shows and in publications due to her idea and success story. What would you reccomend I add to the article to pass the notable person criteria? edilworth 23:39, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

As I said, I will look at the sources, and respond here very soon. Chzz ► 23:57, 16 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have now checked those sources;

http://www.cnbc.com/id/19958311/

This specific section of CNBC - "The big idea" appears to be a competition, where anyone can submit their ideas; it's not a press article. It is presumably self-published.

http://www.ladieswholaunch.com/magazine/grace-welch/2148

This is not a reliable source, because anyone can contribute to it; it is a primary source - ie anyone can pay and get an article on it.

http://sfist.com/2006/07/10/a_diaper_change_for_the_better_local_mominventor_grace_welch.php

Again, not a reliable source; similarly self-published

http://www.startupstudio.com/patemm-founder-grace-welch/podcasts/2007/02/02/

Same sort of thing; primary source, no different to a 'press release'

In short, none of these references are reliable sources, and therefore do not prove notability. The key part of the guidelines is this;

"significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject"

ie Articles about the person, not passing mentions, in some kind of well-known, national newspaper, magazine, book, etc, which are not related to the individual.

I hope that this helps to explain. Cheers, Chzz ► 00:05, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your help. I will try to find better sources. edilworth 00:47, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

OK, cheers. Good luck; please realize that I'm the messenger, so don't shoot me; I'm just explaining the policies. No point wasting time if there is no chance of asserting notability; I do reiterate that bio's are a special case, and references are essential; whilst we would love to have an article about every person on the planet, we have decided that verifiability is critical; thus, if the facts are not out there, we can't justifiably have articles. This is the only way to prevent all kinds of misrepresentation. Anyway - if you have any further questions, please do ask. Chzz ► 02:11, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

{{helpme}} Chzz- I have added several other sources to User:Edilworth/Grace Welch Could you please check them out? These seem to be well known publications and are not self published. Thanks for all your help edilworth 06:30, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

I've made some minor changes to the article in question. Let me know if you need an explanation by replying here.

Chzz is probably watching this page, so your message will be seen without the {{helpme}} tag. If you want to, you can also leave a {{talkback|Edilworth|Help request}} tag on User talk:Chzz to inform Chzz that you have replied. Thanks!—C45207 | Talk 06:53, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I had a quick look at the additional links; the SF Chronicle one looks like it might be OK; boston.com look like an ad (articles rarely have a price and a website link), and the others definitely look like paid-for services; I think that this is very borderline notability, and I'm not sure how such an article would do at a deletion discussion; if you wish to check if the sources are OK, it would be better to as on the reliable sources noticeboard. Chzz ► 18:02, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Your recent edits

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User:Edilworth/Grace Welch

{{helpme}} Could someone help me format the sources for this article. Thanks edilworth 20:21, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

OK, I'll do that now; please see user:chzz/help/ref and user:chzz/help/refs for information on it; I'll let you know when it is done; prob about 15 minutes. Chzz ► 20:29, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have now formatted those 4 sources with citation templates. Please note, I still do not think that they are entirely valid, and I don't think that notability has been established (as per previous notes). Cheers, Chzz ► 20:43, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed deletion of Grace Welch

The article Grace Welch has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Non-notable person, fails to satisfy Wikipedia notability criteria

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{dated prod}} will stop the Proposed Deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The Speedy Deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and Articles for Deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Truthanado (talk) 00:37, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]