User talk:Ericbarnhill

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Alex Horn[edit]

Tell me, would you happen to know where it can be sourced that Horn was a fake and lying about his connection with Lord Pentland . Aeuio 02:24, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Hi, just got this. Have you tried Patterson's essay on the bookmark people? Ericbarnhill 02:24, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Could you email me at Aeuio 02:50, 8 May 2007 (UTC)


Hey, did you cut my comment from the Fof talk page? I defer to your judgment if you did. Ericbarnhill 20:20, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

No, I'd never cut it on purpose, I believe I moved it. (I was rearranging the section so we know what's being addressed where.) I had to rearrange it because some people post a reply, such as what Mario did where he addressed one point and post it underneath everything and made it look like he was replying to everything. Aeuio 20:36, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
I just checked the history, you made one paragraph and its still there. Aeuio 20:31, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Just for the record, I really appreciate your comments. Aeuio 20:37, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

You wanted to be informed about sections which might have an impact on whether or not the "designation as a fourth way school" goes, so you should see this (scroll down to "(Outdent) Two topics marked as controversial, one...") Aeuio 14:47, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Concerning the revert: Click "History", click on the "diff" of one edit before the ones you wish to revert, click edit page, click save. Aeuio 00:53, 23 May 2007 (UTC)


Could you see the pictures on the Gurdjieff page and tell me if you know their copyrights. Aeuio 00:54, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

The funeral one might be deleted because I didn't state its copyrights. The Gurdjieff one might only be deleted if someone stubborn comes along (click on the image to read about the given copyrights). So I would appreciate it if you could ask someone because I would like them to stay. Thanks Aeuio 19:32, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Since you might know something about this, could you take a look here (bottom). O, and the funeral picture is gone; any news of the copyrights? Aeuio 20:57, 30 May 2007 (UTC)


I'm drafting some of the Gurdjieff page here.


Gurdjieff left a system of ideas which he felt comprehensively described man's place in the universe[citation needed]. These ideas range over a broad array of scales, from metaphysical forces, to the human mind and body, to cosmology. The ideas changed in their presentation over time and were reported by pupils as not always consistent even within a single period[citation needed]; some have felt this was proof of Gurdjieff's charlatanism{[fact}}, while others saw it as a methodical technique to keep his students from relying on conceptual ideas rather than self-observation in their pursuit of reality and truth[citation needed].

Sleep, Self-Observation & Self-Remembering[edit]

Gurdjieff taught that mankind was not fulfilling its place in the natural order and that civilization was stuck in cycles of crisis, war, and destruction. The central fact that gives rise to this is that "man is asleep"[citation needed]. Though we differentiate between sleep and waking states, Gurdjieff taught that our waking state is little better than sleep. A real sense of being more awake, Gurdjieff said, is a higher state felt by most people only a few times in their lives [citation needed]. In learning to wake up, Gurdjieff felt humanity had the potential to serve its proper role in the universe.

Waking up begins in the Gurdjieff Work with seeing one's sleep through self-observation[citation needed]. In observing a fragmented, sleepwalking self, one gains more accurate self-knowledge and one's desire to awaken further grows [citation needed]. As self-observation continues and grows more consistent, it can crystallize into a new state of self-remembering in which watching oneself is part of one's daily life[citation needed].

Gurdjieff stated in his Third Series that exercises for self-observation were sufficient work for the "first several years". He described self-remembering as an ongoing uphill battle and remarked many times that all of his larger-scale ideas were intended as supports for the intensive study of oneself that goes on in conditions of work[citation needed].

Groups and Schools[edit]

One of the first things a student will observe, Gurdjieff said, is that as soon as he remembers to watch himself he will fall back asleep again. For this reason people desiring to awaken need to form groups and work together to help self-observation: "no man can see all sides of himself at once"[citation needed]. Further, Gurdjieff taught that one needs to find a school at which true knowledge on how to awaken is being passed down, and such schools are hard to find[citation needed].

In both his talks and his biography Gurdjieff claims lineage to "ancient knowledge"[citation needed] from esoteric schools as the source of his teachings. In his early writings he described his approach to self-development as a Fourth Way: in contrast to teachings that emphasize body, mind, or emotions separately, Gurdjieff's exercises worked on all three at the same time to promote comprehensive and balanced inner development. Though Gurdjieff never used the term Fourth Way in his writings, his pupil Ouspensky made the term and its use central to his own teaching of the Gurdjieff Ideas and even published a book with that name.

Gurdjieff also described his method as a "work in life", in which development is pursued in the conditions of normal outer life rather than in retreat or seclusion. [citation needed]

Art and Culture[edit]

Gurdjieff stated that there were men of higher development in past times who created special kinds of art that lead us toward awakening rather than sleep. Such art was tremendously valuable for development: "one diagram is worth a thousand treatises"[citation needed]. In contrast, Gurdjieff viewed Western and contemporary art as "empty and abortive"[citation needed] trifles that only led mankind further into sleep. In All and Everything, Gurdjieff describes ancient secrets as being transmitted through works of art, understandable only to those who know the laws of the art form and can spot deliberate flaws or asymmetries {[fact}}.

Centers and Functions[edit]

I think that it be better if you'd transfer it here - User:Ericbarnhill/draft1 - and this would also help others to edit it as well. Aeuio 21:09, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
HI Aeuio, I'm just doing this in my private space to sort out my thoughts - this is a pre-draft draft. But thanks - I'll announce it to the talk page when it's close to ready. Ericbarnhill 21:34, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
Hey, I am going to use one line from up there to separate info on the Fourth Way page, as "Fourth Way" is more concentrated on by Ouspensky. Thanks Aeuio 02:08, 15 June 2007 (UTC)


What's your plan for sourcing the info on the Gurdjieff article? I wouldn't know where you got some of that info Aeuio 19:21, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for reminding me. I'll get to what I can of it when I return to town this weekend; I've been away for a while now. I think I will have to pull the Adie comment since the book that's going to publish that information isn't out yet. Ericbarnhill 01:54, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Louis Pauwels[edit]

I just added this since this is mentioned on other wiki pages. How true is this? (You ought to know better than me) Thanks Aeuio 20:56, 4 August 2007 (UTC)