User talk:Kapnisma/Archive 8

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The WikiProject Greece August 2008 newsletter[edit]

The August 2008 issue of the WikiProject Greece newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.--Yannismarou (talk) 10:28, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Requests for comment[edit]

There's an ongoing requests for comment. Please check it out... and notify anyone interested. --Crossthets (talk) 15:38, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Florina/lerin[edit]

From this edit. Have you read the long discussions at Talk:Florina? There are reliable sources for the name, and there was a significant minority talking that language. --Enric Naval (talk) 17:04, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, Bitola needs someone to dig out reliable sources mentioning the name, and linguistic studies about slavic on the zone, so it can be argued successfully on the talk page. Basiaclly, it's all about meeting the points at Wikipedia:NCGN#General_guidelines, in point 2, which refers to the lead, either archaic names or foreign names, proving that there aren't "at least three alternate names", since if there are three or more alternate names then they all should be moved to a separate section.
The trick is managing to meet those points with uncontested sources, since your personal arguments are not enough, you need good sources that prove the points beyond doubt. (and, of course, if there are good sources contradicting your good sources then you have to discuss the relative quality of the sources)

P.D.: Oh, and I just noticed this part about moving the names to a section right after the lead if "there is something notable about the names themselves", which is certainly the case of Monastir, as it needs an explanation on the building that gave the name to the city, as opposed to just being a translation to slavic, as seems to be the case of "Lerin". Florina does have a long explanation on the origin of the name, but there is nothing notable about it. Similar cases are Barcelona and Madrid which have the more important names on the lead, and then a section on all the historical stuff of how the names came to be that way. --Enric Naval (talk) 17:17, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Chart of self-identifying Macedonians[edit]

Kapnisma I realize we are both Greek and yet we still manage to disagree on some issues (the uncomfortable focus on editing against Greeks of a certain contributer - whose diffs I'm fairly certain I've researched in far greater detail than you have - come to mind). However, I can completely respect your autonomy as a human being and hope you can do the same for me.

You recently removed mention of aegean macedonians from the chart of Macedonian naming dispute page. I would agree there is no such thing as Aegean Macedonia (the Greek province is called simply "Macedonia") and while I detest the term "Macedonian" to describe the ethnicity of any non-Greek.. the chart does seem intended to list every kind of currently self-described Macedonian (regardless if Greeks or FYROM citizens agree with it)

Putting aside what their ethnic identity represents from a historical perspective... there is indeed a tiny group of Greek citizens that relate to FYROM (mostly concentrated in Florina). While I agree with the Greek government's refusal to recognize them as "ethnic Macedonians" (since they obviously can't do that because it conflicts with their own Macedonian identity)... I don't agree with the wording by some Greek politicians that makes it sound almost like this distinct group "doesn't exist". IMO it's counterproductive and acts to further obfuscate the issues.

On the plus side though, there may be some possible positive aspects to adding them into the chart. By FYROM nationals in Greece (and abroad) self-identifying themselves as "Aegean" Macedonians" it acts as their own coercion-free geographic qualifier for their identity in Greece (thus leaving Greek Macedonians free to be simply be "Macedonians" in their own country). Including the reference also makes it clearer that there are two types of self-identifying Macedonians within Greece (as opposed to how some FYROM irredentists try to portray all 2.5 million Greek Macedonians as "aegean Macedonians" or even non-existent). In addition, including the Rainbow Party numbers will make it much clearer to third parties how small a minority they represent in Greece and just how absurdly exaggerated the claims by the current FYROM government.

Can you please consider putting back in the reference again? (edited into a format you find more desirable if you wish). Thanks. --Crossthets (talk) 01:42, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

btw - My cheap advice (not intended as a lecture.. just my opinions) While it certainly makes things more pleasant... I don't focus only if someone appears "friendly" to me on Wikipedia. Some people are sometimes friendly simply to make it appear to others that they are balanced (perhaps even for themselves). What truly matters here is the articles, not Wikipedia politics.. nor who claims what about themselves. When I judge the authenticity of claimed neutrals what I look for is politeness, accurate reporting, and balanced effort... not whether they are amused at my jokes. Ultimately Wikipedia isn't a social network... its an encyclopedia. Articles always come first. --Crossthets (talk) 20:05, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Barnstar (map issue)[edit]

Antiflame-barnstar.png The Anti-Flame Barnstar
I, Michael X the White, (although a fanatical non-smoker!), award to you, Kapnisma, the Anti-Flame Barnstar for your calm and logical position throughout the Minority Linguistic Map issue. This cool position of yours played its own important role in resolving this dispute.--Michael X the White (talk) 13:17, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

child refugees[edit]

you keep claiming that i deleted the whole child refugees of the greek civil war article, i merely moved another article to that name then removed it. see here, i am unable to see any previous edit history before my own. Please have a look at the hisotry of the page in question here and stop accusing me of deleting the page. I clearly created the page on the 11th october 2008 before you recreated. I hope i haved cleared the confusion for you, thanx. PMK1 (talk) 06:17, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Kapnisma. There is a discussion occurring about the possible deletion of the Exodus_of_Ethnic_Macedonians_from_Greece page. Would you consider adding feedback to the discussion on the matter. --Crossthets (talk) 20:10, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Exodus of Ethnic Macedonians from Greece[edit]

Ambox warning pn.svg

An article that you have been involved in editing, Exodus of Ethnic Macedonians from Greece, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Exodus of Ethnic Macedonians from Greece. Thank you. Avg (talk) 20:57, 29 October 2008 (UTC)