User talk:Kollok790

Discussion on Safed article - Demographics change in 1948

Welcome to wiki :). Unfortunately I do not know the proper template for welcoming new editors so I apologize in advance.

Please take note that this [1] edit was conflicted by me (since history says the population was evacuated by the British and not expelled). Please note that new editors are advised to refrain from areas that are under ARBPIA.

I realize you're a new editor and therefore it's normal not to know. If you could revert (undo or erase) the sentence which you added without citation, that would be appreciated.

Happy late Merry Christmas and merry editing ahead! Homerethegreat (talk) 06:09, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for bringing that up to me. I added the two sources for the status/context of the exodus of Palestinians from Safed as mainly due to expulsions (and evacuations, I did not remove the mention of evacuations) and the subsequent demographics changes.

Merry christmas to you as well and Happy New year! Kollok790 (talk) 23:09, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

Hey there, please note I've removed the addition. According to other sources the Arab population in Safed was evacuated by the British. Again, I will mention that new editors are advised to refrain from areas that are under ARBPIA which also covers the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. You're more than welcome however to edit in Palestinian sculpture, Israeli surfing etc... Also cities and villages. My advise however is to stir clear from the conflict until you're more experienced. Please feel free to ask any questions and I'll answer :). Homerethegreat (talk) 07:47, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

I don't think experience on Wikipedia necessarily corresponds to experience on the history of the conflict and Safad. In terms of the edits, I provided the source that demonstrates, per both Israeli and Palestinian history, that Safad's population, including the surrounding villages, was both expelled and evacuated (it did not occur in one go).

I encourage you to read the source I had cited, specifically on page 283, instead of simply reverting the edit. To be more specific, Israeli documented history, per the source, states that the Palestinian population of Safed was driven out by expulsion, military attack AND evacuation orders, while Palestinian accounts attribute the expulsion to only military attacks.

If you could provide the source that said the population was evacuated by the British that would be great as I could not find it in the page. Kollok790 (talk) 18:49, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

I would like to clarify as well, that the only accounts of "British evacuation" in Safad refers to the evacuation of British SOLDIERS from Safad, not them evacuating the population. In that case, I believe that whoever had written it initially in the page, had misunderstood the context of British evacuation from the Galilee.

For more information, I'd invite you to take a look at Chaim Herzog's book "The Arab-Israeli wars" specifically the description of Operation Yiftach which is the event underlying Safad's change in demographics that I wrote about in the article. Kollok790 (talk) 18:54, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

Hi Kollok, thanks for your efforts here. If you want to ensure your work remains in the articles, I have three pieces of advice for you:

(1) use the article talk page (in this case Talk:Safed) for these kind of discussions

(2) type out short quoted excerpts from the scholarly WP:SECONDARY sources you are referring to, with page numbers, so that your claims can be easily verified

(3) assume that the other volunteer editors have very little time available to address the topic (whatever topic it may be) so everything needs to be packaged to allow your assertions to be quickly and easily verified, and any conflicting sources can be explained.

Onceinawhile (talk) 23:14, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

I have now added it to Talk:Safed with all the quotations and secondary sources. Thank you for the advice. Kollok790 (talk) 00:59, 29 December 2023 (UTC)